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LiQuiD
BSD geek
Premium
join:2002-08-08
Anjou, QC
reply to TSI Marc

Re: CNOC R&V of CRTC 2011-703 and CRTC 2011-704

said by TSI Marc:

Have you tried building your own infrastructure? I have and so have many other CNOC members. The barriers to entry are astronomical and even if you manage to pull it off the incumbent will cut their retail rates to below your costs and run you out of business. There have already been a number of such examples. There is absolutely nothing protecting us and even if there was, we would *need* those higher margins just to build out. Past that, assuming you'd have it your way, you would then have 3 players in that area competing for 1/3 of that market which is cost prohibitive when you have to build out 100% of that market. Then you have to deal with rights of ways, digging up streets... Renting hydro poles from competitors at unreasonable rates. Stall tactics...

I'm sorry but to me, reading comments like yours infuriate me. For the past few years, at great cost, we've tried to find ways to 'own up' if you will and it's simply not possible at the present time. We've built a fiber plant, we've installed wireless infrastructure, we've invested in CO access only to have rates jacked up and on and on.. You don't seem to appreciate the degree to which we are all enslaved. We need to win these battles at the CRTC in order to make things better for everybody. In order to level the playing field.. Even billionaires are bailing on Canada. Even some incumbents are not building out wireless infrastructure. This is a serious problem. I urge you to dig a bit deeper in your analysis. In the real world as you put it, those of us who are counting the penny's, know what the problems are. We need your support if we're going to make a difference.

Oh please. Poor you, you have to make capital investment in your business and there's a risk that it doesn't succeed. That is so much riskier than general entrepreneurship. Give me a break. Actually Marc, you should have done your homework a little before making such statements. Sure, building out your entire network to each home is expensive, and is a reproduction of existing infrastructure which is highly inefficient (and *ugly*). But many before, and since, you guys started up have gone the route of building up locally using only the actual last mile of the incumbent and have done so with success - even without access to the remotes (I worked at two such ISP's FYI). Sure - you can't build out all over Quebec and Ontario this way, but then... it's not like Bell did that for free either (unlike what many will have people believe).

Instead of fighting for mandating/centralizing/opening/whatever access to subloops from within the CO, you and other ISP's like you are fighting to get a big piece of the pie, but not paying for the convenience. It's like walking into a fine restaurant and complaining that dinner for two plus wine is 150$ when you can do the same at home for 30$. The restaurant keeps you from having to DO it all, and even saves you the trouble of doing dishes. How can you say "oh this is too expensive" or "this isn't fair" when Bell is giving you the keys to THE ENTIRE NETWORK for DSL right now? If you don't like it, that other poster is correct, you do have options. While the initial investment costs more - why don't you share with everyone just how little the LDDS rate is in urban areas (which is where it makes sense to do it on your own)? If this access network of Bell's is really as cheap as you and your likes say, and given that LDDS is less than 10$ a month (in urban areas - don't know elsewhere), you should be able to recoup your capital investment pretty quickly - it's just not as easy as making a little money with minimal investment - and that's what this is all about, easy money is always going to be too easy, and prevent others from taking risks to differentiate.

And yeah, when Teksavvy finally had to build out more of their own network and worry about the logistics of it, and the added expenses, how did that turn out? Seems like the Teksavvy Cable experiment in Rogers-land isn't working out so great is it based on reviews. The price you pay to bell in part covers the convenience of not having to deal with all that crap.
--
Windows is the virus. Linux is the vaccine, FreeBSD is the CURE

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by LiQuiD:

Seems like the Teksavvy Cable experiment in Rogers-land isn't working out so great is it based on reviews.

Mostly because Rogers keeps fudging it up with delays and screw-ups nearly every step of the way. Although TSI may have to order upgrades on a per-POI basis, Rogers is still the one managing everything between the subscribers and TSI's 10G links to Rogers' network so TSI doesn't have much actual control over anything.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by InvalidError:

so TSI doesn't have much actual control over anything.

These days that is becoming ever more apparent.

Why doesn't CNOC bring some proceeding to the CRTC which specifically address mandatory response times, escalation, penalties, mandatory provisioning access (or as close to that as possible), direct access to support systems, etc...?

Let's get this shit out in the open and discussed.


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

They are in proceedings now about some of that.



Davesnothere
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reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by InvalidError:

so TSI doesn't have much actual control over anything.

These days that is becoming ever more apparent.

Why doesn't CNOC bring some proceeding to the CRTC which specifically address mandatory response times, escalation, penalties, mandatory provisioning access (or as close to that as possible), direct access to support systems, etc...?

Let's get this shit out in the open and discussed.

 
Penalties to an incumbent for taking too long on orders from a TPIA partner, I hope you meant.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

CNOC currently has at least 2 proceedings I know of at the CRTC. They may hve others that were quietly submitted.

You cannot accuse CNOC of not being active and if you'ld like them to tackle other things, you have to give them time to get through the current batch of R&V that came from everyone but me.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
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said by jfmezei:

CNOC currently has at least 2 proceedings I know of at the CRTC. They may hve others that were quietly submitted.

You cannot accuse CNOC of not being active and if you'ld like them to tackle other things, you have to give them time to get through the current batch of R&V that came from everyone but me.

They're a 'professional' organization, right?
Surely (Shirley??) they can manage multiple filings all at the same time, and mounting a PR campaign with MP's to deal with the structure failings of the CRTC and how it is basically toothless vs. the incumbents.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to andyb

said by MaynardKrebs:

Why doesn't CNOC bring some proceeding to the CRTC which specifically address mandatory response times,

Let's get this shit out in the open and discussed.

said by andyb:

They are in proceedings now about some of that.

In one case Rogers replied saying the fault isn't with them. They state resellers give them info to hook people up, but they have no IP's.

So Rogers is blaming the resellers for this quakery. Which leads to Rogers demanding more money for having to put up with this.


Davesnothere
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1 edit
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

They're a 'professional' organization, right? [CNOC]

Surely (Shirley??) they can manage multiple filings all at the same time, and mounting a PR campaign with MP's to deal with the structure failings of the CRTC and how it is basically toothless vs. the incumbents.

 
I dunno about Toothless, but mayhaps 'De-Clawed'.

WAIT !

Were we talking about the CRTC ?

Engage the 'Otto-Pilot' !


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to hm

No.Its rogers demanding 5K worth of IP's for hookups that can only 2k worth of subs max.There are no ip4 address's left so rogers needs to clean up their act or implement ipv6.TSI has probably given them enough ip's to do double the amount of customers they have and more.



hm

@videotron.ca

TY for clarifying that.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by MaynardKrebs:

They're a 'professional' organization, right? [CNOC]

Surely (Shirley??) they can manage multiple filings all at the same time, and mounting a PR campaign with MP's to deal with the structure failings of the CRTC and how it is basically toothless vs. the incumbents.

 
I dunno about Toothless, but mayhaps 'De-Clawed'.

WAIT !

Were we talking about the CRTC ?

Engage the 'Otto-Pilot' !

Achtung!!!
Jawohl, Herr Komissioner!!!

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

said by MaynardKrebs:

Achtung!!!
Jawohl, Herr Komissioner!!!

The current chairman was born in Montréal and has no german accent.


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

I dont think its German either.Maybe Hungarian or Polish?



Davesnothere
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1 edit

 
It's pretty close to what modest amount of German that I know.

But I was making 2 jokes & I think that MK took it all as one.

Wasn't Otto the name of the inflatable Auto-Pilot in the movie Airplane ? (end credits)

Now y'all have me thinking about KvF's Heroes and whistling THAT tune !


grunze510

join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1

said by Davesnothere:

Wasn't Otto the name of the inflatable Auto-Pilot in the movie Airplane?

Would you like a little light reading to find the answer to that?


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
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Toronto, ON
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»www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4Ox4cyOxWA


Davesnothere
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reply to grunze510

 
I have the flick saved offline, and yes, that's Otto !

He is also credited at the end.


grunze510

join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1

I know, but you missed an (Airplane) joke. And you know what else we missed? The topic.

Katz got a brand new computer with a tetrabyte food processor with 8 gigahertz of RAM. He received Bibic and Depatie's bribe emails so fast that he asked for another bribe.

(there, now we're somewhat back on topic)



Davesnothere
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said by grunze510:

I know, but you missed an (Airplane) joke. And you know what else we missed? The topic.

Katz got a brand new computer with a tetrabyte food processor with 8 gigahertz of RAM. He received Bibic and Depatie's bribe emails so fast that he asked for another bribe.

(there, now we're somewhat back on topic)

 
Now you've got me thinking (smell anything ?).

But is it OK to bribe interim chairpersons ?

And would that even be effective ?

Offer Katz an RV insread of an R&V !

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

Katz is technically litterate.

And I tried to bribe him once with a loonie and he refused. Note that I was not subtle: "can I bribe you with a loonie ?" (with me offering the loonie) and he flatly refused.

So he passed the integrity test as far as I am concerned. Next time, I may up the ante and try with irrestible chocolate cookies.


jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

 
I have the flick saved offline, and yes, that's Otto !

RIP Otto. He had been staying at the producer's home since the movie, but he was discovered partly decomposed in their garage, the plastic having succombed to time.

As well, Captain Oveur and Doctor Rumack passed away last year (or was it in 2010 ?) (peter graves and leslie nielsen). Doctor Rumack passed away in a hospital ( a large building with sick people in it).


Davesnothere
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said by jfmezei:

Doctor Rumack passed away in a hospital (a large building with sick people in it - BUT THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW....).

 
I still ROFL at how those guys could deadpan deliver the funny lines !



Davesnothere
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reply to jfmezei

said by jfmezei:

....So he passed the integrity test as far as I am concerned....

 
Not really.

It sounds to me like you two are just haggling over the price.

Same punch line applies to the story about the guy offering the girl in the bar increasing amounts of money to go to bed with him.


Gigalo

@videotron.ca

said by Davesnothere:

applies to the story about the guy offering the girl in the bar increasing amounts of money to go to bed with him.

Sounds like a regular night out after a CRTC hearing... with Bell paying the tab.


Guspaz
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Montreal, QC
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

I still ROFL at how those guys could deadpan deliver the funny lines !

All the more incredible is that Airplane was his first comedic role. Before then, Nielson was known purely for dramatic roles. The sci-fi nerds among us will remember his starring role in Forbidden Planet, often seen as a precursor to Star Trek
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jfmezei
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Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

This is just a post to keep this topic active as there will b many posts to it in the next couple of weeks.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

said by jfmezei:

This is just a post to keep this topic active as there will b many posts to it in the next couple of weeks.

I thought it was just riding up your post count?


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to LiQuiD

LiQuiD, I just now noticed your reply.

I take it you are talking about deploying into Bell central offices? We are deployed into the Chatham CO, we haven't done anything with it because they increased all the rates on us last year. We have laid fibre on hydro poles, we've dug fibre into the ground, we've hung fibre over railway tracks, we've installed GPON, we've done LDDS circuits, we've done CO Access, we've installed into the home, we've installed into existing conduits. We've done engineering on all those things, we've installed wireless on two different spectrums in Chatham, I wouldn't say we have done it all, many here have done more of any one of those but I've done enough of each to know that it's a very hostile environment for anybody like TekSavvy who has a big bullseye on their backs from nearly every incumbent and competitor in the country. I'm not complaining, I'm speaking the truth and I've put my money where my mouth is and will continue to fight for those things. I think it's fair to say that TekSavvy has played a major role to date in changing the landscape on a number of these fronts. Others are much more involved now and that's great to see, I don't want too discount anybody else but at the same time I don't accept your general depiction of how it all works. I've never been afraid of hard work and working for my fair share and that's what you're saying is happening, I strongly disagree. TekSavvy has fought for every inch of what it's gotten, don't you doubt my resolve for one second. That others are deploying into COs as you say youve worked at, to me is just a good thing, many need to try to do these things and collectively we need to stand together and fight to improve the existing situation. You have rich Egyptians who have bailed on Canada because it's impossible to compete against the entrenched incumbents. I'm not crying wolf here, I'm not saying I want more for less. I'm saying there's a better way and I'm fighting for that better way. There's a better way for all Canadians. These things benefit all of us. Don't make me the enemy just because you plugged some cables too. We're on the same side and I'm not upset with you.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



jp_zer01

@videotron.ca

said by TSI Marc:

LiQuiD, I just now noticed your reply.

I take it you are talking about deploying into Bell central offices? We are deployed into the Chatham CO, we haven't done anything with it because they increased all the rates on us last year. We have laid fibre on hydro poles, we've dug fibre into the ground, we've hung fibre over railway tracks, we've installed GPON, we've done LDDS circuits, we've done CO Access, we've installed into the home, we've installed into existing conduits. We've done engineering on all those things, we've installed wireless on two different spectrums in Chatham, I wouldn't say we have done it all, many here have done more of any one of those but I've done enough of each to know that it's a very hostile environment for anybody like TekSavvy who has a big bullseye on their backs from nearly every incumbent and competitor in the country. I'm not complaining, I'm speaking the truth and I've put my money where my mouth is and will continue to fight for those things. I think it's fair to say that TekSavvy has played a major role to date in changing the landscape on a number of these fronts. Others are much more involved now and that's great to see, I don't want too discount anybody else but at the same time I don't accept your general depiction of how it all works. I've never been afraid of hard work and working for my fair share and that's what you're saying is happening, I strongly disagree. TekSavvy has fought for every inch of what it's gotten, don't you doubt my resolve for one second. That others are deploying into COs as you say youve worked at, to me is just a good thing, many need to try to do these things and collectively we need to stand together and fight to improve the existing situation. You have rich Egyptians who have bailed on Canada because it's impossible to compete against the entrenched incumbents. I'm not crying wolf here, I'm not saying I want more for less. I'm saying there's a better way and I'm fighting for that better way. There's a better way for all Canadians. These things benefit all of us. Don't make me the enemy just because you plugged some cables too. We're on the same side and I'm not upset with you.

Your weekend post is well received Marc. There's a certain quality to it.