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lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA

1 recommendation

reply to telcodad

Re: [HD] Get Ready for "Ultra-HDTV"

1080p, 1080i, 720p or 4K are all pointless with the amount of compression they're all putting onto the signals. All of them look like garbage on good TV or projector when it comes to fast-moving sports.

Instead of worrying about 4K they should be worrying about reducing compression. Below 50 or 60 inches, it's pretty hard to tell the difference between good 4K, 1080p and 720p signals, but the difference between a highly compressed 1080i signal and a lightly or uncompressed signal is stark.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

1 edit
Are you saying that it is too early to start arguing over which is better - 7680i or 5120p?

Actually, 4K-HDTV (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution) in the "Quad Full High Definition" (QFHD) format of 3840 x 2160 pixels in a 16:9 ratio, is just four times the resolution of the 1080p HDTV, and Version 1.4 of the HDMI Spec supports it.

With Comcast compressing the current HD channels at 3:1 per 256QAM carrier, maybe with a more advanced compression scheme, they could get a QFHD channel squeezed into one 256QAM.

As for 8K (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_High···levision), the Wiki article says that the BBC intends to trial 8K UHDTV during the 2012 Summer Olympics.

Edit: Also, one application of UHDTV is for glasses-free 3DTV: »www.multichannel.com/article/475···ance.php


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
said by telcodad:

With Comcast compressing the current HD channels at 3:1 per 256QAM carrier, maybe with a more advanced compression scheme, they could get a QFHD channel squeezed into one 256QAM.

Here is a candidate for the compression scheme for UHDTV - "High Efficiency Video Coding" (HEVC), also known as H.265 (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Effic···o_Coding ):

"HEVC aims to substantially improve coding efficiency compared to AVC High Profile, i.e. to reduce bitrate requirements by half with comparable image quality, at the expense of increased computational complexity. Depending on the application requirements, HEVC should be able to trade off computational complexity, compression rate, robustness to errors and processing delay time.

HEVC is targeted at next-generation HDTV displays and content capture systems which feature progressive scanned frame rates and display resolutions from QVGA (320x240) up to 1080p and Ultra HDTV (7680x4320), as well as improved picture quality in terms of noise level, color gamut and dynamic range."


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
I want to know when the heck we're going to see this encoding with Comcast.


markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
said by Mike Wolf:

I want to know when the heck we're going to see this encoding with Comcast.

It begins candidate testing for "capture" this summer.

»www.itu.int/itu-t/workprog/wp_it···isn=7752

I have posted about JCT-VC's efforts for the past few years. It is a good reason to not waste money on MPEG-4 rollouts. It is a fantastic solution to deliverable streams in tight bandwidth without the horrific side-effects that MPEG-4 demonstrates. HEVC will be a much better digital TV solution than the MPEG-4 joke that was forced upon us.

Things must happen before its delivered in-home:
Source back-haul must be upgraded to a better quality than today (especially Fox!!!)

CPE must be significantly increased to handle the brute computational force needed in smaller form factors and power use

Cost must be lowered with adoption in other areas before source material is prepared (UV discs and pay-IP-streams would help tremendously)

After that, THEN someone like Comcast would receive content with quality and cost adequate enough to encode further for home delivery. DirecTV as well. Press releases are fun, but have no bearing on the fact that the US is 5-10 years away for "live, non-special high paying special" TV. The Superbowl? Olympics? Much sooner than 5-10 years...
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nysports4evr
Premium
join:2010-01-23
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

With Comcast compressing the current HD channels at 3:1 per 256QAM carrier, maybe with a more advanced compression scheme, they could get a QFHD channel squeezed into one 256QAM.

I could see them doing it with a full QAM and MPEG-4.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
said by nysports4evr:

I could see them doing it with a full QAM and MPEG-4.

Maybe, but as markofmayhem said, MPEG-4 does not provide a quality video experience, especially for something called "Ultra" HDTV.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to markofmayhem
Ok, but when will the new compression technology be made compantibe with current CPE like TiVo and Moxi and HTPC's, or currently deployed DVR's that are rented?


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

1 recommendation

reply to lorennerol

1080p, 1080i, 720p or 4K are all pointless with the amount of compression they're all putting onto the signals. All of them look like garbage on good TV or projector when it comes to fast-moving sports.

I totally agree, but the reality is that they won't fix that, just like they didn't for standard definition.

Standard def could have been DVD quality, yet it was garbage. The only way we got higher bitrates was to move up to HD. And now, once again, we could have bluray quality HD, but we won't.

That said, I don't think DirecTV should be worrying about this when they can't even get lots of basic HD channels to their subscribers.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.

lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to markofmayhem
said by markofmayhem:

CPE must be significantly increased to handle the brute computational force needed in smaller form factors and power use

And given that they are still stubbornly handing out 6+year old DVRs and it's nearly impossible to get the newer 2+ year old boxes, I don't see this happening for a long, long time.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

Are you saying that it is too early to start arguing over which is better - 7680i or 5120p?

7680i would be better on a CRT type of TV Since interlace is native on it

Progressive scan will be better on LCD/OLED/Plasma

since they have native progressive scan