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rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23

Advanced package in Cogeco areas

*** This only is in regards to Cogeco serviing areas ***

In the spirit of being completely open, just an FYI that the 'Advanced' package on the Cogeco network will be changed to 16/1 effective immediately for new customers, however anyone that has pre-ordered and in a 20Mbps area will still get the original package.

This change is expected to be temporary while we work out some logistical issues with the D3 modems, specifically that it's brutally difficult to get the DPC3000's in any reasonable quantity as they have been superseded by the DPC3008, yet the old model is the only one certified for use. We have multiple orders from different distributors across North America currently trying to get a decent amount of stock, and are expected to have a small supply within a week which will take care of the existing customers in the queue.

To deal with this issue, we've been tackling two fronts to get the 20Mbps speeds for our customers. First we're working to get the D3 DCM475's certified for use on the Cogeco network and second we're working with Cogeco to see if we can get the 20 meg profile added for D2 modems. This gives customers better options in terms of being able to get higher speeds with the equipment they may already own, or that is available at much lower prices. The last benefit of this change is that it gives D2 owners and areas an option above 8Mbps - ie the 20 plan is not available in many areas, but the 16 is available everywhere giving everyone an option above 8Mbps.

We've been testing the SB5101N on the 16 meg profile and it's working really well, more details on that within the next day.

Anyway, hope this helps explain the temporary change and reasons behind it.

Thanks!


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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3 edits
 
But (and correct me if I have this wrong), don't D2 modems cause more neighbourhood node congestion at higher speeds than D3 modems would ? (due to having less concurrent channels ?)

And is that not one of Rogers' big concerns in that regard with their retail customers, if they would only wake up about it ?

For that reason, I cringe each time an overly thrifty user posts about being perfectly happy to keep using a D2 modem (saying "It works just fine for ME") where a D3 would perform even better and not pinch his/her neighbours' bandwidths.

One of the Cogeco call centre techs recently told me that it was only a matter of time before they switch EVERYONE over to D3 modems no matter to WHAT speed tier we subscribe, as it will improve their network performance notably over D2.

Bottom Line : I am suggesting that your Plan 'B' part 'D2' might come back and byte you, if very many try to use D2 at higher speeds.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
The main advantage of D3 is channel bonding, but you're still "pinching your neighbours bandwidths" the exact same, just that it might be a different neighbour at any given time. In an already congested node there is some more elasticity in demand/availability but for some people D3 could actually be worse in that a fewer number of higher speed users could effect a larger pool of customers sharing the same channels. Ie, imagine a CMTS with 4 frequencies, you can have 100 customers all sharing 1 bond group that is 4 times as wide, or you can have 25 customers each using 1 channel which are isolated from the other 75 users. Others may jump in and correct me as I'm by no means a CMTS specialist, but those are the basic fundamentals of sharing RF. In the end cable companies still need to manage congestion by node segmentation.


Davesnothere
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1 edit
 
I'm only repeating what I have heard some of the Cable Gurus say in the CBB forum, but the concensus was that D3 modems were less likely to clash with each other as they use more channels in the first place, most of which are ignored by D2 modems, which apparently always choose only the first 1 or 2 channels, I think it was, and apparently D3 will interactively 'look' for less used channels, prior to bonding whatever it chooses to use.

But you are also right about the nodes. - It's all part of a bigger picture.

BTW, I read GONE's review. »Start Communications in Cogecoland - Live, with a Review! - Sounds decent. - Too bad we didn't take a chance on how quickly a modem would have reached me from you last Wednesday. - Would have been here today for sure.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
When you're running a D2 modem on a plant built for D3, you've still got multiple channels per node for that modem to choose from. Cogeco is doing 4x256QAM channels per mode, giving roughly 40Mbit/s per channel. With a D3 modem, you bond those four channels into a single 160MHz 'node' that is shared amongst all the other D3 users. With a D2 modem, you lock onto one of the four channel on the node, and max out at 40, with 1/4 of that being used by the D3 users on your node. From a management standpoint, D3 allows things to 'spread out' of sorts better across the node, but a D2 modem is still able to take advantage of the available bandwidth on the node by hopping channels as needed, it just takes more intervention for it to be managed properly. Furthermore, Cogeco does not bond upstream channels - at least not yet anyway based on what I've seen. Despite this, they still have multiple upstream channels per node. This is a perfect example of how multiple channels don't need to be bonded through D3 to provide a benefit.

In the end, whether or not we get 20/1.5 on D2 modems is ultimately a Cogeco policy decision. There is no technical reason why you can't run 20/1.5 on a DOCSIS 2 modem, especially when you're already running 16/1.

We'll know soon enough if Cogeco is willing to budge on this. Rocca will provide you with more info as it comes along. I'm eagerly waiting to hear what happens with regards to this and will be sure to let you know how 20/1.5 performs on D2. I'll come right out and say it'll be no different than D3.


Davesnothere
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said by Gone:

When you're running a D2 modem on a plant built for D3, you've still got multiple channels per node for that modem to choose from....

 
Fair enough, I think I get that.

Lately, I have seen D3 modems advertised which claim to have 8 channels (or capability for 8).

What happens with THOSE ?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Cogeco only uses two modems for D3, and both only support four channels. If they are running eight channels on a node, the modems could hop between bonded channels the same way a D2 modem hops between multiple single channels, but I don't know for certain.

When Start gets the DCM475 approved, we'll know if they're running eight channels for sure.


Davesnothere
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said by Gone:

....When Start gets the DCM475 approved, we'll know if they're running eight channels for sure.

 
Cogeco has me on one of those D3 Cisco DPC3000 modems and I find it to be just fine.

And would you be inclined to choose an 8 channel modem over a 4, if they were priced around the same ? (as most retailers seem to be doing with the DPC3000 and the DCM475 these days)

Is there anything that a 4 channel unit would do better than an 8 ?

And is Cogeco's only other current D3 model the one which also supports their phone service ?


DavidT
She turned me into a newt

join:2006-09-01
Oakville, ON
reply to rocca
Any chance of signing up for 20/1.5 if I bring my own modem?

I'm going to buy a DPC3008. I can be your guinea pig!!!

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by DavidT:

I'm going to buy a DPC3008. I can be your guinea pig!!!

If it's not an approved model, Cogeco will not likely register it.

knightowl5

join:2010-03-13
Markham, ON
reply to DavidT
I want to know this too!
I have a A motorolla sb6120 and want to know if I can use it!


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by knightowl5:

I want to know this too!
I have a A motorolla sb6120 and want to know if I can use it!

Not an approved modem, and it's not currently in the process of being certified. The simple answer is no.


Davesnothere
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1 edit
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

....This change is expected to be temporary while we work out some logistical issues with the D3 modems, specifically that it's brutally difficult to get the DPC3000's in any reasonable quantity as they have been superseded by the DPC3008, yet the old model is the only one certified for use. We have multiple orders from different distributors across North America currently trying to get a decent amount of stock, and are expected to have a small supply within a week which will take care of the existing customers in the queue....

 
Would THESE be of interest to you ?

When I gamed their shipping calculator with higher numbers (much better rates on multiple Q's, BTW, even at faster 'priority' post office shipping, they want under $100 to ship 10 of them), it maxxed out and told me that they had 58 in stock.

»www.ebay.ca/itm/Cisco-DPC3000-Ca···532#shId

They might offer a Qty break on the units, ya never know (though these are not new product).

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
Provided they are firmware v303r22392-100812a.

People are welcome to self-provide modems of course, but hard for us to buy used ebay stuff and sell it as new.


Davesnothere
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1 edit
said by rocca:

Provided they are firmware v303r2392-100812a.

People are welcome to self-provide modems of course, but hard for us to buy used ebay stuff and sell it as new.

 
Geez, is the firmware Rev in their tariff too ?

Just for the halibut, I ought to compare that Rev to the firmware of the one which Cogeco provided for me.

Is there a specific local IP which I need to use to reach a UI on these ?

As for used product, it would have to be offered as other than new (for rentals, that might be less crucial anyway), and it would also matter how the price FOB London would be, compared to the that of the new ones for which you are already waiting.

And if your new ones arrive with different F/W ?

EDIT : to fix typo in quoted firmware rev number.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
said by Davesnothere:

Is there a specific local IP which I need to use to reach a UI on these ?

Should be at 192.168.100.1

said by Davesnothere:

And if your new ones arrive with different F/W ?

Oh dear!


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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said by rocca:

said by Davesnothere:

Is there a specific local IP which I need to use to reach a UI on these ?

Should be at 192.168.100.1

said by Davesnothere:

And if your new ones arrive with different F/W ?

Oh dear!

 
Thanks.

Mine reports v303r2392-100812a at that IP (and without a login required).

Not same - Is it possible that you typo'd an extra '2' after the 'r' ?

I have updated firmware on many routers and such, and typically there is a built-in procedure driven from their UI, though I have always had to log in to access it.

And there are no other screens. - Is that all I get without logging into it ?

The thought in my mind now is to learn in advance how to change the firmware in case I might get my hands on another DPC3000 unit and it had a different F/W rev.

I'll check support on the Cisco site next, as it may be very obvious.

Chances are that you would be in the same boat if your new ones are different, especially if an older rev.
--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
Yes typo, too many two's.

Another user reported today that they had a DPC3000 and when they plugged it in it started downloading the current firmware on its own, so that's encouraging.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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kudos:7
said by rocca:

Yes typo, too many two's.

Another user reported today that they had a DPC3000 and when they plugged it in it started downloading the current firmware on its own, so that's encouraging.

 
Same happened when the Cogeco tech installed mine.

It took a bit long to come up, and he judged by the lights that an update was happening.

According to other users here, there has been a v301 firmware for these at some earlier point, and they can autoupdate.

After the Cisco site only yielded so much, I externally searched for DPC3000 FIRMWARE on WebCrawler and it was one of the matches.

»[AZ] New DPC3000 Firmware & Speed Boost

BTW, the user that you mentioned, where did they get THEIR DPC3000 ?


Mort

@teksavvy.com
reply to rocca
So, if I sign up today for the current "Advanced" package (16/1) and rent/purchase a D2 modem, will I be able to switch over to the 20/1 package when it becomes available? What about switching of the D2 modem to a D3 ... will there be some sort of credit?


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

BTW, the user that you mentioned, where did they get THEIR DPC3000 ?

I'll PM you


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to Mort
said by Mort :

So, if I sign up today for the current "Advanced" package (16/1) and rent/purchase a D2 modem, will I be able to switch over to the 20/1 package when it becomes available? What about switching of the D2 modem to a D3 ... will there be some sort of credit?

If you signed up today the Advanced package would be the 16/1. We'll be reevaluating all the packages shortly as we try to bring 30 and 50mbps speeds onboard but it is too soon to tell you with 100% certainty what those will look like now.

As for a 'trade up' program for purchased modems, sorry that's not likely. If you're concerned with future-proofing for higher speeds, the D3 modems should be available for purchase within a couple weeks.

Thanks and have a great day!


Mort

@teksavvy.com
Thanks Rocca. As for the modem issue, what if I just rent a D2 for now and then decide to upgrade to a D3 and/or higher package? Can I just exchange the D2 for the D3?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to rocca
If you're planning on 30 and 50 in the not-too-distant future, I'm going to grab me one of those cheap DCP3000s off Ebay before they're all gobbled up by other anxious former-Cogeco customers.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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said by Gone:

If you're planning on 30 and 50 in the not-too-distant future, I'm going to grab me one of those cheap DCP3000s off Ebay before they're all gobbled up by other anxious former-Cogeco customers.

 
I resemble that remark !

Phorkster
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Windsor, ON
kudos:1
Watch out for knock offs.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Phorkster:

Watch out for knock offs.

These aren't free-to-air receivers we're talking about here, haha.

Phorkster
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Windsor, ON
kudos:1
Most of the Pap2T ATAs on ebay are knock offs. Super high failure rates. Just lookin out for my bros.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
An ATA I could understand. A cable modem is a whole other beast.


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON

2 edits
reply to rocca
Results of my eBay DPC3000:

Came with:

Bootloader Revision: PSPU-Boot 1.0.0.4
Current Software Revision: dpc3000-v303r2391-100729aCMCST
Firmware Name: dpc3000-v303r2391-100729aCMCST.bin
Firmware Build Time: 20100729151242

Plugged into a friend's Cogeco outlet. Began firmware download, after 10 minutes it rebooted and then had:

Bootloader Revision: PSPU-Boot 1.0.0.4
Current Software Revision: dpc3000-v303r2392-100812a
Firmware Name: dpc3000-v303r2392-100812a.bin
Firmware Build Time: 20100812134655

DHCP results:

IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 10.69.175.x(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.192.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : April-06-12 9:58:55 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : April-06-12 10:58:55 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 10.69.128.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 24.226.1.122
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 247990953
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-14-FD-A0-8x-x
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 24.226.1.208

All HTTP navigation leads to "Cogeco Modem Assignment Environment".

Modem purchased from: »www.ebay.ca/itm/370595796274