dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
16
share rss forum feed

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Chuckcar_t

Re: DSLR Restore Progress

said by Chuckcar_t:

He should've done incremental backups in which case it would've cost him nothing. Now how much could text possibly take up? There were very few pictures and all for nothing if the bloke just did those incremental backups. Note: Always remember to do incremental backups no matter who you are!

You really should get a clue about the topic at hand before you go mouthing off about what other people should do. Right now, you just sound like a complete and utter tool.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
said by IamGimli:

said by Chuckcar_t:

....Note: Always remember to do incremental backups no matter who you are !

You really should get a clue about the topic at hand before you go mouthing off about what other people should do. Right now, you just sound like a complete and utter tool.

 
But this time he makes a good point (amongst the other stuff).

There simply is NO GOOD EXCUSE/REASON for not making periodic backups to an alternate geographical location, especially if other folks depend upon you or your site !

(and by periodic, I DO NOT mean once every 2 years in which case DSLR wasn't due until September, eh ? )

Even once per month would have been a dramastic improvement over what just happened.

--

START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.
START Website »www.start.ca


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
whats wrong with making backups? i just did one yesturday... cost me $1 in media


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
reply to Davesnothere
Wouldn't once a week, or even every day at midnight be necessary for a site with this volume?
--
Everything in Moderation... including moderation.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits
reply to Paolo
 
@ El Quintron & Paolo :

Absolutely, but I was just making a general point regarding relative severity.

Incremental backups once daily at about 5 AM Eastern time might be optimal.

And now, having said all of that, I really ought to back up some more of my OWN personal stuff right away.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
said by Davesnothere:

 
And having said all of that, I really ought to back up some more of my OWN stuff right away.

An easy way to prevent a catastrophe that I've found, is by keeping your datas and OSes on separate drives, at least that way if one drive goes you're not completely screwed.
--
Everything in Moderation... including moderation.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
said by El Quintron:

An easy way to prevent a catastrophe that I've found, is by keeping your datas and OSes on separate drives, at least that way if one drive goes you're not completely screwed.

 
....which of course is not the Windoze default setting.

I do keep some of my data on other physical drives, even better on other PCs across my LAN, and/or on external USB hard drives.

But there is some with which I have been complacent and need to catch up - docs, bookmarks, & downloaded web pages - all of which default to C: .
--

START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.
START Website »www.start.ca


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
said by Davesnothere:

....which of course is not the Windoze default setting.

Of course not... which is silly because both Linux and OS X separate the OS from the Data by default... even if they don't go all the way by using separate partions, recovery is substantially easier.

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

said by IamGimli:

said by Chuckcar_t:

....Note: Always remember to do incremental backups no matter who you are !

You really should get a clue about the topic at hand before you go mouthing off about what other people should do. Right now, you just sound like a complete and utter tool.

 
But this time he makes a good point (amongst the other stuff).

No he doesn't. Incremental backups are notoriously unreliable as a general rule, and rarely ever work for database backups.

Full system backups or, even better, continuous sector-based shadow copy of the volumes are much more robust, reliable backup technologies when used in conjunction with the appropriate database agents.

None of that would have helped anyway in this case unless it was combined with off-site storage of those backups as there's very little backups can help with when a power outage takes out the storage arrays where those backups are stored and prevents them from being usable.

Hence my comment he should get a clue before telling anyone how to run their backups.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
said by IamGimli:

Hence my comment he should get a clue before telling anyone how to run their backups.

I don't think the term "incremental backup" was the right term to use, but the spirit of what s/he was saying is backups could have avoided this mess.
--
Everything in Moderation... including moderation.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
I think they had database backups, problem is they were on the same storage array which was the biggest blunder I think.
--
BUCK FELL ,,!,,('-'),,!,,


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

said by IamGimli:

Hence my comment he should get a clue before telling anyone how to run their backups.

 
I don't think the term "incremental backup" was the right term to use, but the spirit of what s/he was saying is backups could have avoided this mess.

 
So now we're haggling over the size of the increment, are we ?

I do happen to understand the term 'incremental', and was posting on the basis that the rest of us did too, including Chuck.

I was also posting on the basis that there DID need to exist a primary complete backup to which to apply the increments, and that we all knew that too.

YOUR point (Gimli) though is important to me, as in principle I also prefer full backups, as they are easier to safely and successfully administrate.

But given the circumstances that it looked as though there was NO full 'off-primary-media' backup, ANYTHING further might have proven to be better than what we seem to have so far.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

I think they had database backups, problem is they were on the same storage array which was the biggest blunder I think.

I figured as much... my PCs get backed up to my NAS, and my Data is stored on separate drives than the OS on each individual PC...

Which solves two issues; if the OS fails, then I can re-install the OS while keeping the data, and if the whole thing were to melt down then I'd have the Data on my NAS.

It's the best low-maintenance homebrew solution I can think of.
--
Everything in Moderation... including moderation.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

I think they had database backups, problem is they were on the same storage array which was the biggest blunder I think.

 
Yes, and if true, also an expensive one, on many levels.

I'm curious however, just how long that a FULL backup of a site and database of DSLR's pre-apocalypsoh size would take to do ?

And as such, how frequently it would be practical to perform one with the site up and running 24-7 ?

--

START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.
START Website »www.start.ca


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

...Which solves two issues; if the OS fails, then I can re-install the OS while keeping the data, and if the whole thing were to melt down then I'd have the Data on my NAS.

It's the best low-maintenance homebrew solution I can think of.

 
Dat's NAS ! (pun intended)


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
said by Davesnothere:

Dat's NAS ! (pun intended)

LOL I can see your punny-ness wasn't lost with DSLr's data!
--
Everything in Moderation... including moderation.


kim
That Chick
Premium,Mod
join:2001-03-25
ON
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:

No he doesn't. Incremental backups are notoriously unreliable as a general rule, and rarely ever work for database backups.

Full system backups or, even better, continuous sector-based shadow copy of the volumes are much more robust, reliable backup technologies when used in conjunction with the appropriate database agents.

None of that would have helped anyway in this case unless it was combined with off-site storage of those backups as there's very little backups can help with when a power outage takes out the storage arrays where those backups are stored and prevents them from being usable.

Hence my comment he should get a clue before telling anyone how to run their backups.

^^ what he said.
--
Fluent in 3 languages: English, Sarcasm and Sexual Innuendo.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:

said by Chuckcar_t:

He should've done incremental backups in which case it would've cost him nothing. Now how much could text possibly take up? There were very few pictures and all for nothing if the bloke just did those incremental backups. Note: Always remember to do incremental backups no matter who you are!

You really should get a clue about the topic at hand before you go mouthing off about what other people should do. Right now, you just sound like a complete and utter tool.

ive got backups of my website dont all website owners?

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
said by funny0:

said by IamGimli:

said by Chuckcar_t:

He should've done incremental backups in which case it would've cost him nothing. Now how much could text possibly take up? There were very few pictures and all for nothing if the bloke just did those incremental backups. Note: Always remember to do incremental backups no matter who you are!

You really should get a clue about the topic at hand before you go mouthing off about what other people should do. Right now, you just sound like a complete and utter tool.

ive got backups of my website dont all website owners?

Oh yeah? Do you run a forum with 10,000+ members? Is your incremental backup of a forum with 10,000+ members only text that doesn't take any space? Is your incremental backup free? Have you ever tried to actually restore your incremental backup? How successful was that?

I think my original post bears repeating.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
said by IamGimli:

Oh yeah? Do you run a forum with 10,000+ members? Is your incremental backup of a forum with 10,000+ members only text that doesn't take any space? Is your incremental backup free? Have you ever tried to actually restore your incremental backup? How successful was that?

I think my original post bears repeating.

I'd like to introduce you to my friends LVM snapshots (for a consistent starting state), rsync (for efficient transfer of incremental data), ZFS snapshots (for efficient storage and retrieval of incremental data), and Percona XtraBackup (for consistent hot mysql backups)... This is not a terribly difficult problem to solve, as it's a problem that *everybody* has had for a very long time. As such, there are a lot of easy solutions. Yes, it takes some effort, but it can be done extremely cheaply and it doesn't take a huge amount of effort.

A backup can look something like this:

1) Initiate a MySQL hot backup
2) Create an LVM snapshot to freeze filesystem state
3) Rsync the filesystem and SQL dump changes to backup server
4) Create a ZFS snapshot once the copy completes, giving you nightly incremental checkpoints that you can refer against

You can also do things like replicate the MySQL database to the backup server directly so that you don't have to copy the dump over the network at backup time.

Since a backup server doesn't need crazy performance (just decent reliability), you can build a backup server with a ton of redundant storage very cheaply. You just need a big chassis, a few RAID controllers, and a ton of enterprise-grade SATA drives (which can be found in 2 or 3 TB sizes, no 4TB for enterprise yet).
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
said by Guspaz:

I'd like to introduce you to my friends [...]

None of which has anything to do with the author of the post I responded to suggesting that incremental backups were the end-all, be-all of backups and that they were free, didn't take any space and could solve everyone's disaster recovery issues, which is all bullshit from someone who has absolutely no clue what a disaster recovery plan looks like.

I just find it silly the number of morons who think because they have an account on DSLR they're suddenly in a position to tell people how to run their systems even though they clearly have no fricking clue about the topic.
Expand your moderator at work


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to IamGimli

Re: DSLR Restore Progress

said by IamGimli:

....I just find it silly the number of morons who think because they have an account on DSLR....

 
One irony is that the person to whom you were responding was usually an anon poster, though he used a consistently recognizable algorithm for the names he chose, and only AFTER the fit hit the shan at DSLR, it was only THEN that he actually setup an account here.

The tone of his remarks has frequently been similar to the one which got your goat.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
said by Davesnothere:

*usually* an anon poster, though he used a consistently recognizable algorithm for the names he chose,

Well he became an anon-poster, but he remarks have a lot in common with "chronoss" of way back when... so our on again off again anon poster is probably just a re-branded regular fixture/nuisance
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde


Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
reply to Davesnothere
By the same logic "morons who think because they have an account on DSLR" should also apply to the person that pointed that out to everyone?

Disclaimer: I am just an anon and have no active accounts on DSLR...


kim
That Chick
Premium,Mod
join:2001-03-25
ON
kudos:8

1 recommendation

Some of our best posters are anon. It doesn't make anyone's contributions 'less' of anything because they don't have an account.
--
Fluent in 3 languages: English, Sarcasm and Sexual Innuendo.


Enter Name

@videotron.ca
reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

Well he became an anon-poster, but he remarks have a lot in common with "chronoss" of way back when... so our on again off again anon poster is probably just a re-branded regular fixture/nuisance

Whoa. I don't think anyone comes close to chronos... well ok, that "chuck" guy I guess you are all talking about is somewhat close... but still... it isn't really that close. Magnitudes apart.

The crap the guy would make up in his mind was truly amazing. But then again he was hospitalized for the stuff his mind made up, so he had a reason and no choice i guess.

Magnitudes apart. Not even close.
Expand your moderator at work


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 recommendation

reply to Enter Name

Re: DSLR Restore Progress

said by Enter Name :

....Magnitudes apart. Not even close.

 
And a wonderful afternoon to YOU, 'Mister Videotronanon' !

There - I entered a name.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Enter Name
said by Enter Name :

said by El Quintron:

Well he became an anon-poster, but he remarks have a lot in common with "chronoss" of way back when... so our on again off again anon poster is probably just a re-branded regular fixture/nuisance

Whoa. I don't think anyone comes close to chronos... well ok, that "chuck" guy I guess you are all talking about is somewhat close... but still... it isn't really that close. Magnitudes apart.

funny=chuck=chronoss what pretty much what I was implying.
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde