| I need to change my network addresses for Uverse expansion? Sorry about the cross post, but I am hoping for some answers...
Got a note in my email today from ATT:
"We have some important time-sensitive information about your AT&T U-verse service. As part of AT&T's efforts to enhance our network to accommodate future growth, we will be making a firmware upgrade to your AT&T U-verse gateway.
Why am I receiving this notice?
This upgrade will affect you if you configured your home or business network to use the 10.0.0.1 - 10.255.255.254 private Internet Protocol (IP) range within your AT&T U-verse gateway (i.e., any LAN address that starts with 10.x).
Our records indicate you have configured your home or business network to use the 10.0.0.1 - 10.255.255.254 private Internet Protocol (IP) range within your AT&T U-verse gateway (i.e., any LAN address that starts with 10.x).
What do I need to do?
You must update your network configuration to use an alternate LAN IP range no later than July 6, 2012. Failure to update your network will potentially lead to a service disruption. For information on how to change your LAN IP settings, please visit att.com/lansettings and review the Quick Reference information provided below. If you have an IT professional managing your LAN environment, please be sure to provide him or her with this notice. "
OK, can anyone tell me why the addresses I use on an INTERNAL setup has any effect on ATT? I'm a bit puzzled and upset about this. At this point I have well over 2 dozen net enabled items, 98% with fixed IP addresses. The last time I redid my network it took me many hours to assign and update my equipment, I have ZERO desire to do it again.
I am using the 2 wire gateway as my router, I wonder if I could skip the reset if I were to place my old tomato based Buffalo router after the Gateway and leave my network alone.
Any thoughts? |
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Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| My guess is that a 10. network would conflict with the ip pools they are using for your area...
The easiest way to mitigate its effects would be to use your Tomato Buffalo after the 2wire. Assuming AT&T gave you the standard 2wire router (10/100 bg) the Buffalo should prove on par if not better then the 2wire.
You would still have to change the AT&T router's set up but could avoid changing the ip of your devices by setting up the Buffalo's internal DHCP pool to match what you currently have set up in the AT&T router. Remember that this also means you would have to port forward on both routers.
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Reviews:
 ·NetTalk
·AT&T U-Verse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to matt832
Your lucky you received an email regarding this. A ton of us were pushed the upgrade and lost use of 10.x.x.x as a private range. I can't answer all your questions as to why, but you don't have a way around it. The way the Gateways work, we don't get a true bridge mode to let us use any private range, we are stuck with this DMZ+ mode that basically assigns a range to your devices. Until the latest upgrade we had 10.x.x.x and 192.168.x.x to choose from.
You couldn't throw a router behind it and still use the 10.x.x.x range unless you have your router hold the 192.168.x.x range and then serve out the 10.x.x.x range to your client devices. Tomato may allow you to serve out different addresses than what the router IP holds but I have not attempted to do so myself.
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Join The Fight against Media Censorship www.blackthisout.com |
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Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| A router always uses a different range than the one it is connected to unless it is being used in a more specific way. By default most connect the external ip from a modem or router to one that it uses on its internal network. The most common of which in most consumer grade routers (that I have come across) are 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/16, 192.168.0.0/24. In most cases the firmware does not allow one to change from these standard ip ranges. However, a majority of custom firmwares and routing software allow one to specify any range to be used on the internal network except for 127.0.0.0/8 (loopback addresses)169.254.0.0/16 (Microsoft range) and a few others that I can't remember off of the top of my head.
It all depends on which device you use as your DHCP Server. Ideally the OP would use the Buffalo as the DHCP server and change the internal ip pool to a 10.x.x.x format or use Tomato to set each devices ip to a static one within the router. For about 15 devices should take under 20 mins or so.
As long as the ip pool chosen does not duplicate the level above it then it should all just work. Computers ip is routed through the Buffalo's ip which is in turn routed through the AT&T's router connecting to the internet. The main problem is the latency introduced through the levels of NAT that is required. |
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Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T Midwest
·voip.ms
| reply to matt832
said by matt832:I am using the 2 wire gateway as my router, I wonder if I could skip the reset if I were to place my old tomato based Buffalo router after the Gateway and leave my network alone.
That should work. Just do it now and you'll know.
I've always used my own router behind whatever they provide. I liked the ADSL Speedstream and my current cable modem, which couldn't be any simpler.
Think about the AT&T equipment as a "layer" that can be swapped out with no effect on your internal router. The less intermingling, and the less dependent you are on their equipment, the better.
For you, at least. It's to their advantage to bundle services as much as possible. So they provide you a VDSL modem that includes a WiFi Router with lots of capabilities. It's easier for them because there's only one piece of equipment to replace, plus it makes it harder for you if you want to change providers.
I ran the 3600HGV for a year and, although some of its capabilities were better than my own router, I just set DMZplus to ON, left the default NAT addresses in place and went with it.
When I switched providers, the only thing I had to do was move my router's WAN cable from the 3600HGV to the cable modem.
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MikeVx
join:2005-04-02
Southgate, MI | reply to matt832
said by matt832:OK, can anyone tell me why the addresses I use on an INTERNAL setup has any effect on ATT? I'm a bit puzzled and upset about this. At this point I have well over 2 dozen net enabled items, 98% with fixed IP addresses. The last time I redid my network it took me many hours to assign and update my equipment, I have ZERO desire to do it again.
My guess is that they will be NATing out your area and they are using the 10.x range to do it. The comment about "to accommodate future growth" implies that they may be running out of IPv4 addresses for your section of network, and it may be easier to NAT off your section than to juggle around address blocks to assign new externally-reachable ones to your area.
Beyond that, they probably perceive some other benefits to this. I expect that it would complicate the lives of those using most P2P programs, as they would be limited to outbound connections only unless it proves possible to discover other nodes inside the NATed range.
I would also expect this to mess with anyone using any sort of small server, as some people use mail servers at home and such. I have some mini-server processes to allow point-to-point sending and receiving of files without involving a third-party host. This sort of tactic would break that unless I could make the transfers work over IPv6. So far, there is no sign of that happening here, but I'll keep watch. Oh frack, this would break my IPv6 tunnel. I REALLY hope they go to native v6 before anything like this happens here. |
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| said by MikeVx:Oh frack, this would break my IPv6 tunnel. I REALLY hope they go to native v6 before anything like this happens here. The closest thing to native IPv6 we're ever going to see is the 6rd they're rolling out. If you have a NVG510 there's a good chance you're already live. If not, bring your own router and see this thread.
/M |
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| This makes no sense whatsoever. What does it matter to att what is done on the inside of the router? To say that effects what is going on outside the router is a direct contradiction to the function of nat to begin with. This is crap! |
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 maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1 | reply to MikeVx
said by MikeVx: Oh frack, this would break my IPv6 tunnel. I REALLY hope they go to native v6 before anything like this happens here.
Not very likely. If IPv6 is important for you, you might want to start thinking about an alternative provider for your IPv6 traffic.
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" |
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| reply to Mentor10
said by Mentor10 :What does it matter to att what is done on the inside of the router? To say that effects what is going on outside the router is a direct contradiction to the function of nat to begin with. Because if when they deploy carrier grade NAT they will most likely start assigning 10.x addresses to the WAN side of the router, and having the same address range on both the WAN and LAN sides will really confuse a router.
/M |
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 GNHtolle causamPremium
join:1999-12-20
Arlington, TX | Exactly, and they are. My mobile's (Hsdpa+) internal IPs are: 10.153.xxx.xxx, 10.164.xxx.xxx |
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 ORR
@sbcglobal.net | I also got this message. GNH, does this have any effect an you being able to reach your LAN from outside the network (say for remote desktop, or security IP cameras, or the like)? Any issues with using VPN? |
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GNHtolle causamPremium
join:1999-12-20
Arlington, TX | No problems, but I set my gateway to use Class B 172.16 space. Sounds like the issue is related to those using Class A 10. for their private gateway address space. |
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 gerick
join:2001-01-17
San Antonio, TX | reply to matt832
If When they do deploy "Carrier Grade Nat", then how does that affect me running a server in my home? Will I still be able to access my house over port 80? |
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| reply to ORR
If they are changing our WAN IP to a non-routable 10.x.x.x network, which is the ONLY reason I can think of as to why we need to change our internal LAN segment, then we are doomed. If they do this, forget access to your network from outside, like if you have an email server, a web site, FTP, RDP, or even a Sling Box. I have all the above, and I can't get anyone on the phone who has a clue about networking or what the purpose of the change over is. I either need a static public IP address on my WAN or I need to go shopping for another provider. What a pain! |
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| I just spoke to AT&T again. I got somebody who was fairly knowledgeable and he says that on July 6th, they are switching over to IPV6. Also, the reason for changing from a 10.x.x.x network to 192.168.x.x is because IPV6 can't nat to that segment. I don't know anything about IPV6, so I have to take his word for it. However, the really bad news, is that for anyone like myself that frequently access the home network from the Internet, or has a mail server, web site, FTP, security cams, etc., I believe we've lost that access. I told him that I pity their support desk on July 6th and beyond because there's going to be a lot of broken customer networks and I guarantee there is NOBODY at AT&T who can get on a phone and tell you how to fix the myriad of issues that will arise. Road Runner is getting a call from me this week... |
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cramer
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:7 | said by SteveB :I just spoke to AT&T again. I got somebody who was fairly knowledgeable and he says that on July 6th, they are switching over to IPV6. Also, the reason for changing from a 10.x.x.x network to 192.168.x.x is because IPV6 can't nat to that segment. Excuse me while I clean the Mt.Dew off my monitor.
That is the single largest load of horse shit I've yet seen. They are not "switching to IPv6" -- AT&T's dumbass plan for IPv6 is 6rd TUNNELING. (even AT&T COMMERCIAL services have laughable IPv6 deployment) IPv6 and IPv4 are completely different networks. There is no "NAT" involved... v4 and v6 hosts cannot directly communicate; it takes application aware proxies, no amount of header rewriting can make the two compatible.
The only plausable reason for restricting 10/8 is the (idiotic) deployment of Carrier Grade NAT (CGN) inwhich customers no longer are assigned public IP addresses. (from the same people who hand out static /29's for free to anyone who asks... this makes no sense.) CGN requires some rather beafy hardware, and opens them to a slew of legal issues (tracking the illegal activities of the now-nat'd customers.) This will piss off a lot of people, and *will* cost them customers. |
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| Here are a couple of interesting articles:
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···d=208857
»www.networkworld.com/community/node/44989 |
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| reply to cramer
OK, so you're not sure exactly what they are doing either, so who is, or how do we find out what's happening July 6th? If the guy I talked to gave me bad info, where do I ( we ) go from there? I'm not waiting til July just find out what happens... |
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| I was just told by AT&T 2nd tier support that this is indeed CGN, and that nat'ed customers will no longer be assigned a public IP address. You will be at least one layer, if not two layers down, which seems to also mean that access to services inside your home network will not be available to you outside, as well as breaking VPN. They have told me that for $15/month I can get a private IP address. Maybe that is the key here, getting another $15/month? SIGH. Maybe times to switch back to Comcast! |
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