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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

2 edits
reply to DrDrew

Re: Require DOCSIS 3 modem?

I have concrete proof that we are on DOCSIS 1.1 except for those who have 30/5 and 50/5.

I don't have permission to post the email. I know the Oceanic management person well, it is his job in Oceanic management to know these things, and if this is what he says then that is how it is and I have no reason to go further with it. He is not a poorly trained CSR giving out erroneous information where I might feel it necessary to seek someone higher in the chain to answer questions.

The bootfile can be changed to Oceanic's liking even if the modem is not rated for that DOCSIS version although I don't see how a modem rated for DOCSIS 1.1 could have the bootfile changed to DOCSIS 3 but it could to DOCSIS 2. It might need a firmware upgrade though first. Modems such as mine have the firmware upgrade already but are RUNNING AS DOCSIS 1.1. The firmware upgrade is so that my modem will be able to do IPv6 when that is implemented. Only modems that cannot support DOCSIS 2, after a firmware upgrade, (or the customer subscribes to 30/5 or 50/5) will be swapped out by Oceanic is what I was told by management. Currently, the CMTS is on DOCSIS 1.1 whether you want to believe that or not. Being that a crappy TWC owns Oceanic this could all change in an instant with no courtesy to Oceanic management as to informing them ahead of time. Oceanic is bitterly aware of this but already got punished for bucking TWC corporate a few years ago and won't try to do that again. My point being that as of CURRENTLY what I have stated is correct but that could all change quickly if TWC decides to not allow Oceanic any ability to run its system as it best sees fit. So, you could be right in the future but currently, and in the past when you have erroneously attacked me, you were then and are now wrong.

I know what Comcast is doing and you have mentioned Charter before and getting a DOCSIS 3 modem sent to you. TWC is NOT either of those companies. I won't accept any of the crap shit modems Oceanic is currently giving out. They don't have any Surfboards except the 5100's that are still in operation. I don't know if they are getting any in the near future or ever. I see no reason why my modem would need replacing (as long as it is working ok-Oceanic just corrected speed issues and I now have better modem stats than I have ever had before and Sam Knows reports SUSTAINED -non burst- speeds at or above the cap now) unless I were to subscribe to 30/5 or 50/5 neither of which I can afford or will ever be able to afford. Even 20/2 does not need a DOCSIS 3 modem but even $20 a month more is out of my range, besides, I don't need that much speed on download. I could do the $10 a month more but with the upload so low it was not worth the extra monthly fee. If prices go up in Hawaii then I may have to start doing what so many do on the Mainland and switch back and forth every six months between RR and Earthlink to get perpetual promo deals. Or subscribe to RR Lite.

Edited to correct the two three places where I typed DOCSIS 1.5 when I meant 1.1.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

There is no DOCSIS version 1.5, that is... not according to the official DOCSIS worldwide standard set forth by CableLabs, the group behind the DOCSIS worldwide standard.

»www.cablelabs.com/cablemodem/spe···dex.html

According to that page, there is only versions 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, and 3.0. That's it, no version 1.5.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | Galaxy Nexus LiquidSmooth by TeamLiquid


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Ah...I keep typing 1.5 when I mean 1.1. This is sadly NOT the first time I've done this and probably won't be the last. Getting old is so much fun.

I did have it typed correctly one time in my post but typed incorrectly twice. I'll edit the post.

--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

From a pure bandwidth requirement, the 20/2 service doesn't need DOCSIS 3 but from an efficient bandwidth utilization standpoint, it would be in the cable company's best interest to make people who have the 20/2 service to be on DOCSIS 3 modems. That way no one person can monopolize a data channel.

It all comes down to more efficient use of bandwidth on the cable.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | Galaxy Nexus LiquidSmooth by TeamLiquid



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15

4 edits
reply to Mele20

I wouldn't trust most managers to know how the DOCSIS 3 CMTS installed is actually configured. Now if it was the CMTS Engineer who configured the CMTS or headend tech who knows how it's configured, that's a different story. The only "concrete proof" would be a copy of a config file sent to your modem and/or the CMTS configs your modem is attached to, an email from some anonymous manager isn't either.

CMTS configurations are much more complicated than just DOCSIS 1 on or off, DOCSIS 2 on or off, or DOCSIS 3 on or off. The CMTS can run multiple channels with multiple configurations and dynamically switch between them. A modem can be switched on the fly from DOCSIS 1 to DOCSIS 2 to DOCSIS 3 depending on what the CMTS negotiates with the modem and the capabilities of the modem.

The CMTS may be running 6.4 Mhz upstream channels, 32QAM or 64QAM upstream channels, ATDMA or SCDMA upstream modulation, advanced upstream equalization, or some of the other features allowed by DOCSIS 2 protocols. Some of those features are visible to end users through the modem diagnostic pages (such as upstream channel characteristics), while others aren't.

My modem in TWC land switches between DOCSIS 1 channels and wider DOCSIS 2 channels as the CMTS tells it and I wouldn't know unless I saw it in the diagnostic pages. When I connect a DOCSIS 3 modem, it bonds a few of those channels and goes into DOCSIS 3 mode. If I connect a DOCSIS 1.1 modem, the DOCSIS 3 CMTS is still there and the modem only connects to the DOCSIS 1 upstream channels, but I still get some benefit from the DOCSIS 3 CMTS such as multiple channels the modem can switch between.

Companies (TWC or otherwise) don't normally install multiple $150k+ specialized routers only to turn off all the features that were paid for in the upgrade over the model it replaced.

TWC also doesn't seem to normally push config files that handicap modem features to less than what the CMTS tells it is available and can use, it makes configuring it on the CMTS pretty useless. I've never heard or read TWC pushing config files that instruct DOCSIS 2 modems to ignore DOCSIS 2 channels being offered by the CMTS. Modem bootfiles also can't enable non-existent features on a modem. A modem config file trying to enable DOCSIS 2 features will be ignored on a DOCSIS 1 modem, same for DOCSIS 3 features on lesser modems. The same goes for higher level DOCSIS protocol messages sent from the CMTS to lower level modems.

Anyway, you still have a DOCSIS 2 modem with DOCSIS 2 firmware connected to a DOCSIS 3 CMTS and there never was a DOCSIS 1.5. You're getting benefits from that DOCSIS 3 CMTS whether you realize it or not.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
reply to trparky

Buckeye Cable runs 20/2 on Docsis 2.0 and even on 1.1 if you have a super old modem.



trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

I'm not saying that it can't be done, you can run 20/2 on DOCSIS 2 but... it's a waste of bandwidth on the cable. All it takes is someone to saturate their connection for a long period of time and that data channel is as good as gone for the rest of the people using the same data channel.

That is why DOCSIS 3 is so good, you can connect on multiple data channels and spread the data across multiple data channels thus reducing the demand on one channel and potentially slowing down other customers on the same node.

Again, it all comes down to the fact that DOCSIS 3 allows for more efficient use of bandwidth on the cable.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | Galaxy Nexus LiquidSmooth by TeamLiquid


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to DrDrew

I fully trust the persons (more than one...more than one position at Oceanic both here in Hilo and on Oahu - plant head, technical head, etc several of whom I have personally known (and been friends with) for as long as 37 years (since we first got cable in my building). I don't believe for one minute that they are lying and you, who don't even live in Hawaii, know more about Oceanic than they do.

--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

Well, with the recent changes that TWC has been trying to push it seems that they are trying to consolidate their Internet plans on a nationwide basis, at least in all the territories that they operate including your Oceanic group. If TWC has a hand in it, like the Oceanic group as you say, they will most likely end up being pressed into changes that TWC has been pushing to other territories that they run. This will include standardizing the hardware and configurations used in all of their footprints including all the headend equipment, CMTS, and node hardware in the field.

What does this mean for you as an Oceanic customer? Probably a more consistent service lineup that is more inline with the rest of the TWC company. Other territories are starting to allow users to own their own cable modems minus support for them. Most likely you will see the same option to do so in the future with the consolidation that they are trying to do across their markets.

I've tried to stay civil in this conversation and maintain my posts with facts, nothing else.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | Galaxy Nexus LiquidSmooth by TeamLiquid



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15

2 edits
reply to Mele20

Pay attention to your modem's data channels, I'm sure you'll find them changing occasionally. When it does make a note of the channel ID, frequencies, modulation type, and symbol rate.

Look for upstream modulations of 8, 32, or 64 QAM; symbol rates of 5120, and/or ATDMA or SCDMA modulation. Any of that is a sure sign of DOCSIS 2 being used.

BTW, I never said the people you were talking to were lying, I said I wouldn't trust them to know.



Konaguy
Live From Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Kailua Kona, HI

I highly doubt Oceanic would have all their subscribers turn in their modems for a DOCSIS 3.0 compatible modem. Most subscribers here are still on DOCSIS 1.1, so it would be a nightmare to force everyone to switch all at once.

Oceanic is buying solely DOCSIS 3.0 modems from now on. I believe they'll replace these modems whenever subscribers upgrade, etc.