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DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Dissembled

Re: Vivendi to discuss sale of Activision Blizzard...

I think the value is going down due to bad calls on game design lately.


gains

@windstream.net
it's obvious, facebook... you've heard it here first. real id connected to you facebook profile... with links to your character profile.... facebook connecting social media to the masses, or at least to the mass multiplayers. trade chat straight to your wall.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
reply to DarkLogix
said by DarkLogix:

I think the value is going down due to bad calls on game design lately.

Like?


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to gains
I'm not sure if you were actually directly referencing this, but a friend of mine from FB friended me over RealID in Diablo III using a Facebook Friend Finder. The B.net alert referenced the service directly, so I know that's how he got my BattleTag.

I wasn't aware that existed until the request popped up.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to gains
I find it hilarious.
People cry about lack of privacy on he internet all the time but:
1]They hop onto Cloud storage. Anything stored on someone else's hard drives is no longer private, IMO.
2]They send e-mails [like your company warns you, e-mails can be read at at anytime they feel the need to check them. Something with the internet service provider/e-mail service you use at home.
3]Willingly post pictures and updates about what they are up to on social media sites. But yet have a "melt" down because phone manufacturer/cell phone companies/retailer track their movements.
4]Using Real ID or it's like. So instead of 100 different passwords you just use one, to log into all your sites [facebook, twitter, dslreports]. The only time I've used Real ID [I think it's a Blizzard thing] is to chat with my kids in WOW. Outside of that I don't share my e-mail or ID with anyone.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Snuffbox
said by Snuffbox:

said by DarkLogix:

I think the value is going down due to bad calls on game design lately.

Like?

To many to name.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4

1 edit
said by DarkLogix:

said by Snuffbox:

said by DarkLogix:

I think the value is going down due to bad calls on game design lately.

Like?

To many to name.

List three:

1)

2)

3)

Edit: And I'll just take a wild guess and expect one of them to be "Pandas" so you really only need to name two.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
1) killing portals in dalaran then making new portals that still kill world travel

2) the new talent system looks like crap

3) the raid design of T13 is kinda poor

4) the overall homogenizing of the game, and dumbing down

5) Making old content meaningless other than to transmog and get achevments

6) killing the game play at old level caps

7) making one time use zones

8) nerfing the utter crap out dungeons so that noobs can do them.

theres more but this is what I thought of off the top of my head

frankly I don't mind the pandas, worgen are better.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
said by DarkLogix:

1) killing portals in dalaran then making new portals that still kill world travel

Working as intended. Moved players from Dalaran to "Home" cities (SW & Org)

said by DarkLogix:

2) the new talent system looks like crap

Opinionated opinion. Almost everyone hates new. Personally I like the old 51 point talent trees. But claiming the new model as a "design failure" is fairly weak. Especially without being able to recognize the strengths and flexibility it poses.

said by DarkLogix:

3) the raid design of T13 is kinda poor

I'm not even going to touch down on this...

said by DarkLogix:

4) the overall homogenizing of the game, and dumbing down

I agree, I dislike this. However, it's a smart move from a subscription standpoint, and has allowed players that were previously intimidated to break the ice.

said by DarkLogix:

5) Making old content meaningless other than to transmog and get achevments

They didn't make old content meaningless.... Achievements and transmogs brought life back to old content. On top of creating heroic modes etc of old dungeons/raids. This point could not be more wrong. Mention a game that has done a better job keeping old content active....

said by DarkLogix:

6) killing the game play at old level caps

What...? Are these even worth responding to now? Expansions are meant to expand. They make money and create new content based on players going from vanilla (60) to MoP (90). It would be absolutely foolish for them to cater to the level 60 players that don't want to purchase an expansion. Talk about killing Blizzard stock.

That's all I have time for... back to work...


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
I know people that have all the expantions but want to play one toon at say lvl60 because they want to do vanilla stuff, but the game is broken for them, One person I knew had a LVL60,70,80, and 85 each only using gear and enchants available to a toon of that level and he actually found a guild that was (might still be doing) 40man raids of MC/BWL/AQ40

I know others that want to but admit that it wouldn't be as fun as if it were more reverted to vanilla

I also want the 51point trees back, even the current ones are more about homogenizing players into playing one way.

Ya the homogenizing gets new players, loses old, and the new tend to be more casual and don't last so while they get a surge they then lose alot due to lack of long term interest and older ones not likeing the change.

Now on the MoP trees if you want a spec theres really only one way.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
said by DarkLogix:

I know people that have all the expantions but want to play one toon at say lvl60 because they want to do vanilla stuff

There are always exceptions. Do you think he is the majority? You brought this up combating Blizzard stock.

Are you telling me that you think catering to level 60 for example would be beneficial?

I won't even continue this debate if you feel it would be intelligent for them to do so from a financial perspective.

Edit: This is not meant to sound harsh - I simply don't have the time to fluff it up. Do not take offense.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
IMO they should just avoid breaking things, ya they focus on current but when in dev it wouldn't be to hard to make past caps still somewhat balanced, and stick to their guns on not nerfing things so much.

And you might be suprised, I've seen lots of good players jump ship due to the nerfing and other crap and the new ones can't seem to play hardly, it seems some days like blizz is catering to the trolls not to the players.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
It is near impossible to balance end game, not to mention attempting to balance five end-game caps at once (60, 70, 80, 85, 90).

It is absolutely not even remotely feasible.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
It is possible its just hard, and the blizzard's owner's penny pinchers aren't about to let that happen.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
... I don't think you grasp the intricacy of what you're suggesting.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Its easier than you think

They already balanced it at 80 so they'd just have to maintain that and expand on it, instead of changing the whole system.

It'd be much easier than you think, though they've compunded the issue with changes that would never have been needed if other changed hadn't been done.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
said by DarkLogix:

They already balanced it at 80 so they'd just have to maintain that and expand on it, instead of changing the whole system.

You are under the impression that a level 80 ability is not affected by a level 85 change.

You seem to be under the impression that new abilities are not obtained before new level caps.

You seem to be under the impression that damage/heals are all that's necessary to balance at these level caps.

Completely ignoring the fact that classes obtain different abilities at different levels. A rogue may have blind/sap/gouge/kidney/cheapshot at a certain level, while another class only has one form of CC.

There is so much to this causing an avallanche by the smallest end-game tweaks.

Will not, and cannot happen.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
On I easily know all of this

its a matter that some abilities were shifted to a higher level and they didn't need to be, then as with health and other stats its easy to alter the amount they inflate at.

All that you mention could have easily been done in a better way.

Sure a LVL80 mage wouldn't have timewarp, well they didn't have that in WoLK so big woop, same goes for many others, and then if they just hadn't shifted things up, and left spell ranks in it'd be so easy.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
Heh... you win. It's easy, they just choose not to for giggles.

I don't have the patience today.


stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS
reply to DarkLogix
said by DarkLogix:

Its easier than you think

They already balanced it at 80 so they'd just have to maintain that and expand on it, instead of changing the whole system.

It'd be much easier than you think, though they've compunded the issue with changes that would never have been needed if other changed hadn't been done.

It's no longer balanced at 80. Every time an expansion comes out, everything is balanced for the new max level. Those of us who have been around for every pre-expansion patch know that things get unbalanced in that patch. Some classes get a little more powerful, some might be a little nerfed. But (hopefully) all will be balanced at the new max level. The new talent system will mitigate that some, simply because there's fewer choices and each tier is themed.

Pre-BC patch got a little ridiculous, because we got an extra tier of talents, and had the points to spend on them. Pre-WotLK wasn't quite as bad, because the number of talents didn't change - the talents got streamlined. Pre-Cata was a big change, because the talent trees got revamped, and there were now fewer choices - not a bad thing, since quite a few things went baseline for your spec. Pre-MoP is going to be the biggest change, because the whole talent/spec system is getting revamped. Balancing 60/70/80/85 for the specs and talents is possible, I'll grant, but it would push back development time on MoP. That leads to more people dropping out of the game, which leads to more lost revenue than holding on to those people who want to stay with old content.

While i'll admit that there are those out there who want to stay in the old level caps, they are a minority. The majority of us would rather see something new. The sooner we see it, the better.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.

Gains

join:2012-06-19
Saint Clairsville, OH
reply to Snuffbox
i'm thinking he's just saying it was a design decision to allow changes at level caps... i personally never understood it either. why break it and only have one end cap... you spend a whole expansion tweaking it so that it's as balanced as you can... then you throw all that out the window....

they could have made the decision that nothing in one expansion affects the next. (this is pretty much the Vanilla/BC expansion change. a true expansion and not a total revision) so you play vanilla talent tree/mechanics till 61.. BC till 71... wrath till 81 and then cata till 86...then when you pandas. they already had it "balanced" at 60,70,80, and 85.

It was definitely a design decision to not bracket them off and leave them balanced. (pretty much imagine playing classic to 60, as soon as you hit 61 bc talent tree comes into play...as soon as you hit 71... talent tree becomes the wotlk one.)

it make as much sence to go from 71 point tree at level 80... to a 31 point tree at 81 as it does to change it at the begining of an expansion.

Vinceruos_t

join:2012-05-04
There was a post the other day in the Wow forums of a guild that was recruiting raiders for a 25 man guild. They were basically all starting over at lvl 1 and were going to complete every single raid in the game using only the approprate gear and consumables. So they were going to all lvl up to lvl 60 and turn xp off and then procede to progression raid MC until they completed it and then move to AQ and then BC and so on all the way up to heroic DS. They were only accepting people who had completed 8/8 heroic DS so they knew they were capable raiders. To me this sounded rly fun. At least something to keep you occupied until MoP. They had a lot of people interested in joining too.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Snuffbox
said by Snuffbox:

Heh... you win. It's easy, they just choose not to for giggles.

I don't have the patience today.

They do it to be creative and bring new ways of playing (simpiler ones) into the game.

They want change because non-change gets repetitive and if they made some awkward change after the level caps it'd be awkward but thats not really difficult to work around if you start by not dumbing down everything.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Vinceruos_t
IMO the task to revision fix the past mistakes would be fairly hard, but if instead they accepted that they should only expand not revise then it'd avoid breaking past level caps.

Right now BC is broken, 1-60 was up scaled with cata but 61-70 wasn't so suddenly bosses get weaker, so even the leveling is broken because of the revision.

Gains

join:2012-06-19
Saint Clairsville, OH
this is very apparent when i was leveling up my pally. i could solo every 5 man instance including bosses up to ubrs.


Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
reply to Gains
said by Gains:

i'm thinking he's just saying it was a design decision to allow changes at level caps...

I understood.

I'm saying not only would it be a financially poor decision to balance and cater to old expansion end-game, it is also unrealistic and fragmented.

Gains

join:2012-06-19
Saint Clairsville, OH
you obviously missed my point if you think i'm advocating that they "balance" anything but endgame. i'm saying they made a decision to unbalance 60 70 80 and soon 85. breaking them.

i'm also saying that it's NOT a financial decision to cater to old expansion end-game... because it was already done at the end of each expansion. All they have to do is NOT try to balance the old game around the new expansion (which is actually more work and limits players options)... that's really what's happening here...

that's the only true financially poor decision. they keep tweaking old hat by reducing xp, reducing mob strength, changing talent tree intended to be endgame but then overpowers you in the earlier levels, on and on... instead of what they really should be doing which is limiting an expansion to an "actual" expansion. you know, added content.

they could even start right now at the end of cata by not changing anything. any toon below 85 plays with cata mechanics/talents/whatever. when you ding 86 "WELCOME TO MISTS." you get a new fancy talent tree. here are some new fancy mechanics.... blah blah blah

that is a design decision that they made that turned what could have been 4 endgame contents into 1 endgame by just keeping them separate you don't have to worry about balance because that was done as best as they could during each expansion.

... had they keep it this way it might have felt fragmented at each expansion transition... but there would be more options.

right now leveling. i'd not be solo bwd at level. the best dps spec for wouldn't be the one you get your first aoe in... most of the time that's your tank spec. you tanks wouldn't do 50% of your groups damage. while a dps that doesn't get his aoe till lv 45 can barely do anything. you'd not be a perfectly fine tank as long as your in plate.

they messed with old stuff so much it's meaningless. why do you even have lvl 1-60 anymore? what is the skilling of running in a groups and mashing one button over and over again... and having 10 times more threat than anyone.


stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS
So you'd like them to keep old talent systems until you hit the first level of the new expansion?

...

really? It would be more work to do such a thing. Plus, you'd have to factor in the learning curve of all the new players, who are leveling. Before Cataclysm, low levels generally didn't have their "signature" ability - the one you get with your specialization now - until 30-40. Talk about your one-button spamming. Then there's "hit 61 - all talents change. Rechoose them". And again at 71. At 81, choose your spec and more talents. At 86, everything changes again.

It can be tough enough when an expansion comes around, and with the speed you level, changing the whole way your class is played would drive people away. It would also minimize the time one gets to be familiar with one's class.

1-60 is still there because you need time to get familiar with your class, and learn its abilities. Skipping levels adds up to more clueless noobs at max level who have no idea how to play their class.

said by Gains:

right now leveling. i'd not be solo bwd at level. the best dps spec for wouldn't be the one you get your first aoe in... most of the time that's your tank spec. you tanks wouldn't do 50% of your groups damage. while a dps that doesn't get his aoe till lv 45 can barely do anything. you'd not be a perfectly fine tank as long as your in plate.

...I have no clue what you're talking about here.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.

Gains

join:2012-06-19
Saint Clairsville, OH
could have worded that better.

right now... because of changes that they have done either purposefully or consequentially to old content

-pretty much any class can tank, except clothies.
-you're group steamrolls dungeons, which really teaches players nothing except what to expect.
-you're way overpowered or the mobs are so nerfed that you feel that way.
-some class could literally solo every 5 man dungeon, up until UBRS at the appropriate level. I know i could on my pally.
-tanks will be top damage dealers for those low level. by spamming a few buttons... swipe, righteousness, heart strike, or cleave
-they decided to change old content to aoe and go... some classes get late aoes... and will only be able to dps at a way lower levels than other dps.

these are kinda what i meant there.


stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS
They didn't change old content to AoE and go - the changes to the classes and the addition of heirlooms turned it into that. Form a group that has no heirlooms at all - quest items and dungeon drops - and try and blitz through an on-level dungeon. Of course, the reitemized quest rewards help out some, but it won't be as easy as it is when you have 3-4 pieces of heirloom armor, heirloom weapon, and 2 trinkets. You normally wouldn't see a trinket until ~50, and those were generally not all that powerful.

Soloing dungeons on your pally? How many heirlooms did you have?

Also, top damage means nothing at any level below max. At low levels, people are still learning their class. Plus, most people don't care about top damage, as long as the dungeon gets finished, and douchebags don't bail when they do/don't get the drop they want off a specific boss.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.