World of Warcraft → Re: [MoP] Next Legendary

I like the idea behind this, but I'd hate to see the guild drama of 10 or 25 people all having the starter item and then trying to figure out who gets theirs first. Or who wouldn't get one since most tiers only have enough time for 2 or 3 legendaries tops. Shadowmourne was the only one wherejust about everyone got one if they were in a high end raiding guild.

Like Immer I'd love to see another one that gives you a current tier normal mode epic. Even if they gave you one in an xpac's first tier and then made it upgradable for gold and a semi-difficult questline I'd be into that.

Like for Cata there could be one where you have to go to multiple heroics to collect pieces, pay 10k gold to someone in Org/SW to assemble them and then have to do an infusion type deal on Magmaw or Omnotron to get an ilvl 359 weapon. Which like the Wrath hilt questline can be made into a weapon that suits your class and spec. Then for FL you have to kill 100 mobs to retemper the weapon in the elemental flames and get a crystal from Shanox which will be infused into your weapon for another 10k gold to upgrade for an ilvl 378 weapon. More storyline for the upgrade in DS times could include the 3 new heroics to expose the weapon to the dragon soul and then a chunk of morchok and another 10k to upgrade to an ilvl 397 weapon.

And you would never care about normal mode weapon drops again!

Let's talk about the daggers that dropped on Madness and how useful those were and how fun it was when they dropped. Mind you, I'm for legendary starter weapons as incentive, but if everyone can get a relatively easy same-ilvl weapon, it means the other weapons pollute the loot tables.

The Hilt weapon was ilvl 251, equivalent to a 10 man drop. So yes, it removed the excitement for 10 man players on weapon drops, but "serious" raiding was 25 man. I suppose if the weapons were at the LFR tier, but upgradeable when a new tier hit. that would work. Your tradeoff would be Gold or LFR.

But current tier normal ilvl weapons from non-raiding-based means? Not a good idea.

in moderation, I think it would be a great thing. That hilt had a low drop rate... it was exciting to get it, then run through the questline... and select a weapon.

I wanna see the next legendary work like this...

-Starter quest. To explain collecting items in raid tier.
-Raid Collecting. An example: it might take 2500 items total to craft. Everyone can loot the quest items for each boss downed.. so the entire guild is collecting pieces... lets say 10 a week per person (250 per 25m raid). Once the raid has collected enough to make 1 legendary... guild will then decide who it goes too. (At this time anyone that has disagreements with who gets it can take what they earned and walk. in this example that would be 100 quest items).

I think that doing it this way would.... 1) Make the guild completely involved. 2) Make the legendary owner completely aware that he didn't earn the item. His guild did. 3) The person isn't chosen till the end of collection(although you can), which allows you to change you mind on who deserves it and allows everyone to have input in it. 4) Someone missing a raid week does not hold your guild back a week on receiving the items. Or if they quit half way along on collecting.

-As a raid everyone goes and uses these items to do a raid boss.. This boss should be end tier equivalent. A then legendary quest item drops.

-Long story driven quest line that may require monetary value to craft(forge)(conjure) legendary item. This,
however, does not hinder item creation times wise. (maybe it does slow it down but not daily or weekly limited)

Meh, we all know the legendary is going to the GM or the RL first..

Not saying that that's not sometimes the case.... this isn't the cause if the gm's or rl's class doesn't use it. I think it just make it so a guild comes together on this. If the person that everyone assumes is going to get it... ends up being an asshole or stop showing. well, you the guild isn't out much.. the person that thinks he did it all himself can take his portion (1/25th) and hit the road. It'll only hurt the guild one more run on getting it.

It will also make it impossible to farm at later tiers by yourself....

I suppose FL dropped enough BOE weapons from trash. I wasn't a fan of that concept either.

Note: I'm fine with not-so-powerful pieces of gear being available, like belts, feet, offtier pieces, etc. at ilvl from non-raiding means. But weapons and trinkets offer so much power, they should be the reward from raiding.

I am notably a fan of the "last boss drops half a tier up weapons" model they used for DW and LK. And Rag, I suppose but his itemization was whacky (hey isn't it nice for the only shaman helm to drop off the last boss, tier or offtier?)

I was going for the hilt style, just have it earlier. Like Immer said, have it be a low drop rate but I'd make it BoP instead of BoE so you don't have them as a get rich quick on the AH. If you had it drop from first tier heroic bosses with a 1% chance you either have people who get lucky or people with my RNG luck who would kill 200 bosses and never even see one, let alone win it. Plus, people would still run them 2 tiers later in hopes of a hilt drop.

For me in Wrath I was in a 10m guild for most of if, but it doesn't mean we weren't serious about our raiding.

Having it be LFR ilvl isn't too bad of an idea either, though you'd probably have to keep any questlines to new tier heroics instead of raids.

I like the concept of guilds building up the pieces, but a few problems:
1. people leaving still sets you back. If I'm a dedicated individual and my guild has selected me for the legendary, I don't want to worry that the pissant hunter takes his items and ditches or stops playing so he can't contribute to the end of the line, even if he's the only one who disagrees and/or he just can't play for some reason and didn't trade the items.

2. If you do something like a Guild Quest (with some sort of counter) or Guild Bound Items that show up in the Gbank, multiple raids can produce the first legendary far faster.

That being said, if you had weekly caps on the guild collections (that exist naturally for individuals because you can only kill so many bosses), it could lead to an interesting design for 10v25. Maybe you can only get 250 items a week, which is one 25 man raid full clear, or 2.5 10 man raids. B Teams and Alt Teams in 10 man guilds can do runs to help contribute to that total.

The way to game this of course is to split into a bunch of smaller guilds and reform later with your legendaries. But you're still limited to 25 man guild full clear level for each small guild, plus each small guild doesn't have the perks of the new guild, and its a much bigger impediment to moving around.

It also mucks around with people who aren't guilded and/or groups of random alts who are just shunting to one person. But maybe that's okay.

BOP wouldn't be too bad. I just got annoyed a lot when things would drop and be useless because "oh I got a weapon from the AH" or "nah I don't need the offspec piece, I bought tier with VP". Having something drop and having it not be useful because there were easier to obtain and better gear for that slot is annoying. If something drops and you don't have that class or its dropped before, that is oddly less infuriating.

Why does it always seem to be hunters (a.k.a. "huntards") who get used anytime someone needs an example of an asshat in WoW? Are we really THAT bad? (Don't actually answer that, just a rhetorical question. )
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I've always thought it would be interesting for "older" legendaries that are now obsoleted by current gear (i.e. Sulfuras, Thori'dal, Shadowmourne, etc), to have some kind of mechanic in which they could be "updated" to be commensurate with current gear. It wouldn't necessarily have to be horribly complicated - imagine that when MoP releases, several of the new raid bosses/dungeon bosses have some kind of item which drops infrequently (5% chance?) and is BoP, and that if you can collect one of each item, you are entitled to bring your legendary item to the arcane reforger for an "update". I just think it's a shame that there are hundreds of legendary items sitting in bank vaults, because "JimBob's Hammer of the Saggy Lawnchair" (a green quest reward obtained by killing 12 orcs in Hellfire) completely outclasses the hammer of Ragnaros himself. Plus, it would be insanely cool to see people wearing/wielding the old legendaries in current raid/dungeon/PvP content. My two cents.
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PS (to ward off flames of fury) - I'm not suggesting this as a way to OBTAIN a legendary item - only as a way for someone to "update" a legendary item that they have already obtained in the normal fashion. Obviously it would need some careful thought if it were to be implemented.

I think the easiest way to handle that would be to let people TMOG their current gear to previous legendaries. You still have to have the item to TMOG it.

the most impressive looking weapon that i have seen, is that archy sword, that the name escapes me right now cause im old i guess, but the first time i saw one was on a tauren warrior and it just looked huge, like it could cleave a city bus in half.

zin rok is that right?

That would be better than nothing, I suppose. I'm definitely NOT one of those who is in to transmogging; to me, it would seem much cooler to ACTUALLY be wielding Thori'dal when tackling MoP raid bosses, than to be wielding a "Pandaren Bow of Fuzzy Tickles" which I had transmogged to look like the real thing. (And, not like I actually have Thori'dal sitting in my bank, it's just the example I chose, since my main is a hunter.)

/agreed.

The other option would be let it upgrade itself as you level ala BOAs.

The only problem is when you cap, there is more gear at that level that would outclass it, eg: if you hit 90 and iLevel blue gear at the time was iLevel 460 and your Thunderfury (Did some one say Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?) became iLevel 460, what would happen by the time patch 5.4 comes out and gear is iLevel 520.....

that's fine. I think older legedaries should be novelties... rarities. I'd prefer the BoA model over TMOG. If they leveled up like BoAs, then they should stop at the first tier of raiding in a new expansion. Otherwise, why work hard to create new wpn art? The goal here, I think, is to let people enjoy their legendary weapon for as long as they play the game. Animations, procs, all of it... But current raiders should have something new to look forward to as well. New skins, new procs, new stats. I wouldn't want the old ones to be so good that their weilders never want any new gear. That would be bad for raiding overall.

nick, i was kinda imagining it like this. legendary quest items are kinda like the gem essences that you get for killing bosses in raid or they are like a quest item that everyone can loot off the boss.

you won't be able to sell or trade them... collectively your raid needs enough to activate the legendary boss inside the raid. so lets say your raid total in my earlier scenario has finally gotten a total of 2500. (In a perfect world that's 100 on each toon in your 25 man, however, it could be 180 on some toon and 20 on some new players. Some week you didn't full clear so you may not have got all you could get) Anyways, running alt raids will of course allow you to make more legendaries... it does right NOW, it however won't affect how fast you can make just one legendary. you won't be able to do it in one week by doing 10 compete alt runs...but just like it now... you're pretty much able to make 10 legendaries by doing 10 alt runs for the same amount runs it takes to make one.

the boss is summoned or accessed from inside a raid when you have all the pieces. you won't be able to cheese it by trading to accumulate off of all you toons.

maybe a door that opens when everyone clicks on it with enough pieces. maybe it's like you buff the person that you want to get the item with everyone's quest items. when his stacks reach 2500 something happens. (personally, i think he should turn into the boss but have limited control over himself to help not pwn his raid. then his raid needs to help him control the his power)

the jist of it is that that huntard that takes his ball and leaves won't even set back your guild half a raid on achieving your legendary. everyone pitched in to make it as a guild... only guilds will be able to form them... period... try solo'n something that is designed to take x number of people x number of weeks. legendary will be able to be made at the same rate as before but a true group effort.

The problem with this is that not every raid that forms up is based out of a guild. And I'm not counting PuGs. I know of 7 10 mans and 1 25 on my server - with very little player duplication between them - that had run regularly up until ~15% DS buff. Okay, 1 was primarily a guild raid, but if they didn't have 8, they didn't fret and took subs in regardless. It's one of the 4 still running. Blizzard isn't going to require a guild for raiding.

My guess is that we will see a tanking legendary 2nd tier, and a monk/druid 2H 3rd tier. As much as I'd like to see it, enh shaman are unlikely to get one, because anything they can use, so can rogues. And rogues just got one.

Of course, with the Wrathion stuff in beta, it's possibly that they could change to dropping multiple items in a tier that can be upgraded to legendary. The text on the item you get states: "Greatly empower any piece of Sha-Touched equipment. Removes all existing gems and enchants." So, if multiple items drop that state "Sha-Touched", there could be multiple legendaries. However, that's part of a quest chain, and it's mostly just a reward for raiding. Depends on how often the items needed for the earlier parts of the chain drop in raids, and whether or not everyone can loot it, or if it's like cinders/gem clusters. There's not really any raid loot from MoP known yet, so it could be an option.

reguardless of being in a guild the concept still applies to a group of people that are raiding constantly. If they are puggin 2 of their 10 each week... it would take them X weeks longer to make one.

if you are saying that one should be able to get a legendary from hopping from pug to pug to pug to pug... i don't think thats how it should be... plus doing it this way pretty much makes it impossible to go back and farm unless you get a group that puts as much effort into it as originally. there was originally talk of making guild exclusives... like pets, mounts, patterns, legendaries. that are returned to the guild bank when someone leaves the guild.. say you have your legendary staff finally, well you're really just borrowing it from the guild. if you leave it is given back to the guild to pass back out. I think it is a good idea.

Again, you're missing my point. Not every regular raid is built around a guild. I raid as a part of a raid alliance on my server that has been doing guild-blind raiding since Molten Core. It gives us a nice core of decent people to do heroics and find subs if a person is out. I've been raiding with the same core of 4-5 people for the same night(s) every week since 2008. We're not all in the same guild for a variety of reasons, and limiting legendaries to a guild like you've mentioned, would mean some of us would have to leave one guild for another.

That group I mentioned is not pugging 2 of their 10. They are regular members who raid every week that simply aren't in the other's guild.

Limiting legendaries to guilds would kill raids. Plus there's nothing stopping someone from booting out the person who has been awarded the legendary - thus returning it to the guild - and passing it out to someone else. There's also the potential in larger guilds to trade off the legendaries, thus making it easier to get another, and then you eventually have a raid full of them. (Raid A completes their legendary, passes it on to Raid B so they have an easier time, make another, etc. Raids eventually equip every person who can use it with a legendary, passing it over to the next raid for the next raid night.) Unless, of course, you limit the legendary to one per guild - in which case you kill off/splinter guilds with multiple raids.

"reguardless of being in a guild the concept still applies to a group of people that are raiding constantly." like I said... I don't care if everyone from your raid is from a different guild... or each in thier own... for a group of people constantly raiding together, the concept still applies. so I'm not really missing you're point.

I think you should re-read my posts, then think about how it would work. Then have an "Aha! Moment."

No need to assume a lack of understanding. You two are just arguing different (valid) points. I've read your proposal a few times, still don't get a "warm and fuzzy" nor and "aha!" moment.

I disapprove of making farming multiple legendaries impossible. It would disincentivize normal raiding later in the tier. That is a problem (well, not for the pvp folks) for newer guilds, casual players, new players. If the concern is for the ZOMG race to server first! elites, then just introduce the legendary quest once the heroic version is unlocked (forcing the racers to forego the legendaries for progression).