dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
5
share rss forum feed


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to gains

Re: [MoP] Next Legendary

I like the concept of guilds building up the pieces, but a few problems:
1. people leaving still sets you back. If I'm a dedicated individual and my guild has selected me for the legendary, I don't want to worry that the pissant hunter takes his items and ditches or stops playing so he can't contribute to the end of the line, even if he's the only one who disagrees and/or he just can't play for some reason and didn't trade the items.

2. If you do something like a Guild Quest (with some sort of counter) or Guild Bound Items that show up in the Gbank, multiple raids can produce the first legendary far faster.

That being said, if you had weekly caps on the guild collections (that exist naturally for individuals because you can only kill so many bosses), it could lead to an interesting design for 10v25. Maybe you can only get 250 items a week, which is one 25 man raid full clear, or 2.5 10 man raids. B Teams and Alt Teams in 10 man guilds can do runs to help contribute to that total.

The way to game this of course is to split into a bunch of smaller guilds and reform later with your legendaries. But you're still limited to 25 man guild full clear level for each small guild, plus each small guild doesn't have the perks of the new guild, and its a much bigger impediment to moving around.

It also mucks around with people who aren't guilded and/or groups of random alts who are just shunting to one person. But maybe that's okay.



Caelharrad

join:2012-04-13
Fenton, MO

said by Nick D:

...I don't want to worry that the pissant hunter takes his items and ditches...

Why does it always seem to be hunters (a.k.a. "huntards") who get used anytime someone needs an example of an asshat in WoW? Are we really THAT bad? (Don't actually answer that, just a rhetorical question. )
...
I've always thought it would be interesting for "older" legendaries that are now obsoleted by current gear (i.e. Sulfuras, Thori'dal, Shadowmourne, etc), to have some kind of mechanic in which they could be "updated" to be commensurate with current gear. It wouldn't necessarily have to be horribly complicated - imagine that when MoP releases, several of the new raid bosses/dungeon bosses have some kind of item which drops infrequently (5% chance?) and is BoP, and that if you can collect one of each item, you are entitled to bring your legendary item to the arcane reforger for an "update". I just think it's a shame that there are hundreds of legendary items sitting in bank vaults, because "JimBob's Hammer of the Saggy Lawnchair" (a green quest reward obtained by killing 12 orcs in Hellfire) completely outclasses the hammer of Ragnaros himself. Plus, it would be insanely cool to see people wearing/wielding the old legendaries in current raid/dungeon/PvP content. My two cents.
...
PS (to ward off flames of fury) - I'm not suggesting this as a way to OBTAIN a legendary item - only as a way for someone to "update" a legendary item that they have already obtained in the normal fashion. Obviously it would need some careful thought if it were to be implemented.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8

I think the easiest way to handle that would be to let people TMOG their current gear to previous legendaries. You still have to have the item to TMOG it.


cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE

the most impressive looking weapon that i have seen, is that archy sword, that the name escapes me right now cause im old i guess, but the first time i saw one was on a tauren warrior and it just looked huge, like it could cleave a city bus in half.

zin rok is that right?
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
I've lost the bleeps, I've lost the creeps and I've lost the sweeps.



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8

Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds



Caelharrad

join:2012-04-13
Fenton, MO
reply to Immer

said by Immer:

I think the easiest way to handle that would be to let people TMOG their current gear to previous legendaries. You still have to have the item to TMOG it.

That would be better than nothing, I suppose. I'm definitely NOT one of those who is in to transmogging; to me, it would seem much cooler to ACTUALLY be wielding Thori'dal when tackling MoP raid bosses, than to be wielding a "Pandaren Bow of Fuzzy Tickles" which I had transmogged to look like the real thing. (And, not like I actually have Thori'dal sitting in my bank, it's just the example I chose, since my main is a hunter.)

Skittles_t

join:2012-05-03
reply to Immer

said by Immer:

I think the easiest way to handle that would be to let people TMOG their current gear to previous legendaries. You still have to have the item to TMOG it.

/agreed.

The other option would be let it upgrade itself as you level ala BOAs.

The only problem is when you cap, there is more gear at that level that would outclass it, eg: if you hit 90 and iLevel blue gear at the time was iLevel 460 and your Thunderfury (Did some one say Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?) became iLevel 460, what would happen by the time patch 5.4 comes out and gear is iLevel 520.....


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Skittles_t:

said by Immer:

I think the easiest way to handle that would be to let people TMOG their current gear to previous legendaries. You still have to have the item to TMOG it.

/agreed.

The other option would be let it upgrade itself as you level ala BOAs.

The only problem is when you cap, there is more gear at that level that would outclass it, eg: if you hit 90 and iLevel blue gear at the time was iLevel 460 and your Thunderfury (Did some one say Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?) became iLevel 460, what would happen by the time patch 5.4 comes out and gear is iLevel 520.....

that's fine. I think older legedaries should be novelties... rarities. I'd prefer the BoA model over TMOG. If they leveled up like BoAs, then they should stop at the first tier of raiding in a new expansion. Otherwise, why work hard to create new wpn art? The goal here, I think, is to let people enjoy their legendary weapon for as long as they play the game. Animations, procs, all of it... But current raiders should have something new to look forward to as well. New skins, new procs, new stats. I wouldn't want the old ones to be so good that their weilders never want any new gear. That would be bad for raiding overall.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

I'd rather hang out with friends and collect gear, mounts, and achievements that don't require me to beat up on the weaker kid.


gains

@windstream.net
reply to Nick D

nick, i was kinda imagining it like this. legendary quest items are kinda like the gem essences that you get for killing bosses in raid or they are like a quest item that everyone can loot off the boss.

you won't be able to sell or trade them... collectively your raid needs enough to activate the legendary boss inside the raid. so lets say your raid total in my earlier scenario has finally gotten a total of 2500. (In a perfect world that's 100 on each toon in your 25 man, however, it could be 180 on some toon and 20 on some new players. Some week you didn't full clear so you may not have got all you could get) Anyways, running alt raids will of course allow you to make more legendaries... it does right NOW, it however won't affect how fast you can make just one legendary. you won't be able to do it in one week by doing 10 compete alt runs...but just like it now... you're pretty much able to make 10 legendaries by doing 10 alt runs for the same amount runs it takes to make one.

the boss is summoned or accessed from inside a raid when you have all the pieces. you won't be able to cheese it by trading to accumulate off of all you toons.

maybe a door that opens when everyone clicks on it with enough pieces. maybe it's like you buff the person that you want to get the item with everyone's quest items. when his stacks reach 2500 something happens. (personally, i think he should turn into the boss but have limited control over himself to help not pwn his raid. then his raid needs to help him control the his power)

the jist of it is that that huntard that takes his ball and leaves won't even set back your guild half a raid on achieving your legendary. everyone pitched in to make it as a guild... only guilds will be able to form them... period... try solo'n something that is designed to take x number of people x number of weeks. legendary will be able to be made at the same rate as before but a true group effort.



stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS

said by gains :

... only guilds will be able to form them... period...

The problem with this is that not every raid that forms up is based out of a guild. And I'm not counting PuGs. I know of 7 10 mans and 1 25 on my server - with very little player duplication between them - that had run regularly up until ~15% DS buff. Okay, 1 was primarily a guild raid, but if they didn't have 8, they didn't fret and took subs in regardless. It's one of the 4 still running. Blizzard isn't going to require a guild for raiding.

My guess is that we will see a tanking legendary 2nd tier, and a monk/druid 2H 3rd tier. As much as I'd like to see it, enh shaman are unlikely to get one, because anything they can use, so can rogues. And rogues just got one.

Of course, with the Wrathion stuff in beta, it's possibly that they could change to dropping multiple items in a tier that can be upgraded to legendary. The text on the item you get states: "Greatly empower any piece of Sha-Touched equipment. Removes all existing gems and enchants." So, if multiple items drop that state "Sha-Touched", there could be multiple legendaries. However, that's part of a quest chain, and it's mostly just a reward for raiding. Depends on how often the items needed for the earlier parts of the chain drop in raids, and whether or not everyone can loot it, or if it's like cinders/gem clusters. There's not really any raid loot from MoP known yet, so it could be an option.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.


gains

@windstream.net

reguardless of being in a guild the concept still applies to a group of people that are raiding constantly. If they are puggin 2 of their 10 each week... it would take them X weeks longer to make one.

if you are saying that one should be able to get a legendary from hopping from pug to pug to pug to pug... i don't think thats how it should be... plus doing it this way pretty much makes it impossible to go back and farm unless you get a group that puts as much effort into it as originally. there was originally talk of making guild exclusives... like pets, mounts, patterns, legendaries. that are returned to the guild bank when someone leaves the guild.. say you have your legendary staff finally, well you're really just borrowing it from the guild. if you leave it is given back to the guild to pass back out. I think it is a good idea.



stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS

Again, you're missing my point. Not every regular raid is built around a guild. I raid as a part of a raid alliance on my server that has been doing guild-blind raiding since Molten Core. It gives us a nice core of decent people to do heroics and find subs if a person is out. I've been raiding with the same core of 4-5 people for the same night(s) every week since 2008. We're not all in the same guild for a variety of reasons, and limiting legendaries to a guild like you've mentioned, would mean some of us would have to leave one guild for another.

That group I mentioned is not pugging 2 of their 10. They are regular members who raid every week that simply aren't in the other's guild.

Limiting legendaries to guilds would kill raids. Plus there's nothing stopping someone from booting out the person who has been awarded the legendary - thus returning it to the guild - and passing it out to someone else. There's also the potential in larger guilds to trade off the legendaries, thus making it easier to get another, and then you eventually have a raid full of them. (Raid A completes their legendary, passes it on to Raid B so they have an easier time, make another, etc. Raids eventually equip every person who can use it with a legendary, passing it over to the next raid for the next raid night.) Unless, of course, you limit the legendary to one per guild - in which case you kill off/splinter guilds with multiple raids.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.



gains

@windstream.net

"reguardless of being in a guild the concept still applies to a group of people that are raiding constantly." like I said... I don't care if everyone from your raid is from a different guild... or each in thier own... for a group of people constantly raiding together, the concept still applies. so I'm not really missing you're point.

I think you should re-read my posts, then think about how it would work. Then have an "Aha! Moment."



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by gains :

I think you should re-read my posts, then think about how it would work. Then have an "Aha! Moment."

No need to assume a lack of understanding. You two are just arguing different (valid) points. I've read your proposal a few times, still don't get a "warm and fuzzy" nor and "aha!" moment.

I disapprove of making farming multiple legendaries impossible. It would disincentivize normal raiding later in the tier. That is a problem (well, not for the pvp folks) for newer guilds, casual players, new players. If the concern is for the ZOMG race to server first! elites, then just introduce the legendary quest once the heroic version is unlocked (forcing the racers to forego the legendaries for progression).

--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

I'd rather hang out with friends and collect gear, mounts, and achievements that don't require me to beat up on the weaker kid.