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JAC70

join:2008-10-20
canada

1 recommendation

reply to elitefx

Re: [Express] Rogers express 80gb cap?

said by elitefx:

And what's Rogers afraid of? Why not sell standalone D3 modems?

I can think of a couple reasons. a) They don't want the hassle of dealing with third-party routers, and b) they plan to implement a surcharge per IP address assigned once IPV6 is enabled.


aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
kudos:7
Reviews:
·PenTeleData
·Verizon Online DSL

said by JAC70:

They plan to implement a surcharge per IP address assigned once IPV6 is enabled.

#1 Is that for

a) IPv4 only,

b) for IPv6 only

c) OR for both IPv4 and IPv6?

#2 Why do they plan to do that?

said by JAC70:

They don't want the hassle of dealing with third-party routers.

While my ISP is not Rogers, I have to say this:

With Verizon if the user has their own router, Verizon offers premium tech support.

quote:
If you use our router we will support you for free, but if you use your own router we require extra money to support you.
Why can't Rogers do that?

Thanks.
--
Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact.

JAC70

join:2008-10-20
canada

1 recommendation

said by aefstoggaflm:

#1 Is that for
a) IPv4 only,
b) for IPv6 only
c) OR for both IPv4 and IPv6?
#2 Why do they plan to do that?

This is just speculation, mind you, but as I understand it, with IPV6, every device should be assigned an IP, since NAT breaks protocols. It's not a stretch to think that Rogers could charge extra for multiple IPs.

quote:
If you use our router we will support you for free, but if you use your own router we require extra money to support you.
Why can't Rogers do that?
Thanks.

Because they're Rogers, and nothing is free. Besides, how many of the first level support people do you think could handle that?


yyzlhr

@rogers.com
reply to aefstoggaflm

It's important to understand that the vast MAJORITY of customers are not on forums like this and are often very scared of technology. These gateways allow Rogers to remotely configure and diagnose problems, which is not possible if a customer uses their own gateway.

Also, don't worry, Rogers is launching a paid premium tech support product, not sure if they will be supporting 3rd party routers though.



elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

3 edits

1 recommendation

said by yyzlhr :

Also, don't worry, Rogers is launching a paid premium tech support product, not sure if they will be supporting 3rd party routers though.

So what you're saying is Rogers complete lack of technical knowledge, untrained and unskilled support staff and their inability to support up to date technology is Roger's reason to deny Rogers customers freedom of choice on their HiSpeed services.
And what, pray tell, is Roger's reasoning behind their continued discrimination and abuse directed at their D2 internet subscribers??
Why are we paying higher fees for non-existant network improvements?? Limiting user access is not a network improvement but rather a degradation of services.
Who is Rogers hiring to maintain their networks? Dogwalkers and Panhandlers??
3rd party Standalone D3 modems are just like their D2 predecessors, they all utilize the same docsis 3 chip. All the Rogers trained seals need to do is type in the Mac address and click on "activate". It's not rocket science. Of course, anything more than answering a phone would seem like quantum physics to Rogers IT department.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to JAC70

said by JAC70:

This is just speculation, mind you, but as I understand it, with IPV6, every device should be assigned an IP, since NAT breaks protocols.

Which protocols would those be? The vast majority of protocols work perfectly fine with NAT. Most of those that used to get "broken" by NAT were only broken due to poor design such as remote client software relying on unnecessary IP:port information provided in the application protocol instead of IP:port provided in the existing packet headers which is the standard practice.

The only thing that got "broken" by NAT is the need to setup port forwarding for applications that need to accept inbound connections but this requirement will likely remain for security/firewalling purposes (prevent people from accidentally exposing open ports to the rest of the internet) with IPv6, so nothing really saved there either.


yyzlhr

@rogers.com
reply to elitefx

said by elitefx:

said by yyzlhr :

Also, don't worry, Rogers is launching a paid premium tech support product, not sure if they will be supporting 3rd party routers though.

So what you're saying is Rogers complete lack of technical knowledge, untrained and unskilled support staff and their inability to support up to date technology is Roger's reason to deny Rogers customers freedom of choice on their HiSpeed services.
And what, pray tell, is Roger's reasoning behind their continued discrimination and abuse directed at their D2 internet subscribers??
Why are we paying higher fees for non-existant network improvements?? Limiting user access is not a network improvement but rather a degradation of services.
Who is Rogers hiring to maintain their networks? Dogwalkers and Panhandlers??
3rd party Standalone D3 modems are just like their D2 predecessors, they all utilize the same docsis 3 chip. All the Rogers trained seals need to do is type in the Mac address and click on "activate". It's not rocket science. Of course, anything more than answering a phone would seem like quantum physics to Rogers IT department.

I don't think you read my entire post. The reason why Rogers is moving away from standalone modems is so that they are able to better support customers who don't know how to configure and troubleshoot these devices. The vast majority of customers are NOT on these forums and are NOT tech savvy and they really appreciate the option of having Rogers remotely access the device and configured for them.

JAC70

join:2008-10-20
canada
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

Which protocols would those be?

My limited understand is that most network boffins hate that NAT breaks the end-to-end model, but administrators don't want to renumber IPs if they change ISPs, and they don't want to have to learn new security methods. Then there's the problem that hardware manufacturers will just go ahead and build NAT66 devices anyway. I'll refer you to the IETF for questions.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to yyzlhr

said by yyzlhr :

The reason why Rogers is moving away from standalone modems is so that they are able to better support customers who don't know how to configure and troubleshoot these devices.

I hear what you're saying my friend BUT for Rogers to offer a Gateway for one and only one segment of their customers is, not only bad for business, but it is basically saying to hell with the rest of us.
For Rogers to provide/activate a standalone D3 modem, 3rd party or not, would be saying "Hey, We appreciate your business and we'll do what it takes to keep it"
Now, is there anyone on Planet Earth that could imagine Rogers actually showing respect and appreciation to their customers without trying to swindle another few bucks out of us?????
Can you imagine what would happen if Ford or GM only sold one model of car??

Hooter

join:2009-08-17
Scarborough, ON

1 recommendation

reply to yyzlhr

said by yyzlhr :

I don't think you read my entire post. The reason why Rogers is moving away from standalone modems is so that they are able to better support customers who don't know how to configure and troubleshoot these devices. The vast majority of customers are NOT on these forums and are NOT tech savvy and they really appreciate the option of having Rogers remotely access the device and configured for them.

I beg to differ with your comment. I still have a stand alone D2 modem and I have never needed to have Rogers remotely access it and configure it for me. Adding a router was no problem whatsoever. On the other hand, when a customer "downgrades" to one of the D3 gateways, and then discovers that the wireless component is a piece of crap, they are left holding the bag. The customer who is not tech savvy as you suggest then has to somehow try and figure out what to do next. They may have no clue as to how to have the Rogers unit placed in bridge mode so that they can then add their own router which they were told by Rogers (falsely) they would not need. It would be much better to have a stand alone D3 modem (which Rogers could certainly provide support for) and then add your own choice of router.


yyzlhr

@rogers.com

It's easy for us to say that as people who are comfortable with technology. But as a former Rogers employee and a former employee of other tech companies, you would be surprised at how technologically inept most people are. Surprisingly, plugging in a router is a daunting task for most people.


Hooter

join:2009-08-17
Scarborough, ON

1 recommendation

said by yyzlhr :

It's easy for us to say that as people who are comfortable with technology. But as a former Rogers employee and a former employee of other tech companies, you would be surprised at how technologically inept most people are. Surprisingly, plugging in a router is a daunting task for most people.

I do agree that when it comes to technology, that many people are totally inept. However, in my opinion it is easier to hook up a router to a stand alone modem than it is to figure out what to do with a Rogers gateway when they discover that the wireless range is extremely poor and their connection keeps on dropping.

My son had this problem with the first gateway Rogers gave him. He had no clue what to do so he phoned Rogers. They told him to reboot the modem by unplugging it for 30 seconds and then plug it back in. It worked for a bit but the problem returned. Next phone call, they tell him to take it in and exchange for a new modem. Same problem because the gateway is a piece of junk! And as you say, if people are that technologically inept, when you tell them to put the modem into "bridge mode", it is like you are speaking a foreign language to them!

Bottom line - for anyone running a home network, a stand alone D3 modem with your own router is likely a much less daunting task than solving the problems of the Rogers gateways when the wireless component does not work properly.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

said by Hooter:

Bottom line - for anyone running a home network, a stand alone D3 modem with your own router is likely a much less daunting task than solving the problems of the Rogers gateways when the wireless component does not work properly.

The thing that just blows my mind is that I could walk into a Rogers store tomorrow morning and say to a Rogers CSR "Here's $5,000.00, give me your best stand alone D3 modem so I get what I'm paying for on Express" and the guy would look at me and say "Sorry sir, all we have are SMC Gateways".
I can't even fix this D3 modem issue with a pile of money. Now, how ridiculous is that??? I will not spend one red cent on SMC or ANY Gateway garbage.