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SuperNet9
Go Ninja,Go Ninja Go..
Premium
join:2002-10-08
Harwood Heights, IL
kudos:5

2 edits

What the home inspector found...

Click for full size
Well I got an inspector for a house I am thinking of buying

1) He said the AC unit is about 15 years old...
2) He said the new bathroom they built the type of wiring isn't code (see attached pic, the middle pic). (is it ok wiring ??)
3)The Attic fan isn't working
4)The roof has about 10 years on it left..
5) The water heater is 15 years old ( that still good?)
6)Bathroom fan isn't working
7) The Attached 2 car garage has some spots where it isn't patched so the fumes can get into the house.

Other than that, the house seems fine... If I wanted to fix/replace things he said, how much would it cost? Should I go with a house with these types of issues?
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nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12

Re: What the home insecptor found...

1) Near the end of life (about 18 years if you are lucky)
2) Your are probably does not allow romex cable.
5) Near the end of life.
--
...because I care.


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to SuperNet9
Did you already make an offer? If not, consider dropping the price you're willing to pay by 10-15 grand or more.
It's about time for an new A/C and the water heater is past-due, and the roof is not as critical but needs to be watched.

Apparently there are known electrical issues, it's what's unknown that could be a real problem.
--
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FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

2) Your are probably does not allow romex cable.

Out of curiosity, what's required by the NEC now? NMW? Might convert a bathroom into a kitchen and put in a powder room this fall, so I figured, I'd plan ahead (gonna get that inspected anyway, but it's better to do it right the first time
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to SuperNet9
For # 6, I remember an episode of "Holmes on Homes" and he said it was real common for homeowners to simply disconnect vent fans when they started getting noisy vs replacing them. I wonder if that's the case here ?


SuperNet9
Go Ninja,Go Ninja Go..
Premium
join:2002-10-08
Harwood Heights, IL
kudos:5
reply to jack b
They were originally asking for 215 I got the house for 196,yes I put the offer...


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
reply to FiReSTaRT
You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

Yikes.. That'll put a dent in the housing development. I love your level of faith in the system
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


fluffybunny

@teksavvy.com
reply to SuperNet9
budgetr 30K to fix everything, house looks ok if thats the only thing he found. did he look at the pipes ? are they PEX or copper ?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to Jon
said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

No it the result of Unions influencing building requirements. Romex is fine and used everywhere the Unions have not colluded with local officials to ban it making work for them at extra expense for the builder and buyers. If Romex is not safe in IL then it's not safe anywhere. Perhaps the NEC should not allow it.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

2 recommendations

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

No it the result of Unions influencing building requirements. Romex is fine and used everywhere the Unions have not colluded with local officials to ban it making work for them at extra expense for the builder and buyers. If Romex is not safe in IL then it's not safe anywhere. Perhaps the NEC should not allow it.

I heard the unions were also to blame for the heat wave that we've been experiencing and for the upcoming harsh winter
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
reply to Jack_in_VA
I'm sure it's safe. Just stating the fact that you can't use it here. Well, I suppose you can but you have to run it through conduit so it's kind of pointless.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to SuperNet9
Perhaps someone can post the relevant Code section and IL state Code amendment for that local area....


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to Jon
said by Jon:

I'm sure it's safe. Just stating the fact that you can't use it here. Well, I suppose you can but you have to run it through conduit so it's kind of pointless.

Requiring conduit in a residential home is what's pointless. Either Romex is safe or it's not.


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to Jon
said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit.

I'm not disputing your statement, but I looked at Lowes for Naperville IL and they sell Romex. Can't be much demand for it... Yes, I realize people could buy it and use it out of state, but that's not very practical.

Doesn't New York (City) have similar requirements of using flexible metal conduit (and effectively no Romex) ?


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

1 recommendation

Here ya go
quote:
5-1F-1: ADOPTION:

For the purposes of supplementing the provisions and regulations contained in this title, and for setting forth minimum standards for the installation of electrical wiring, the city hereby adopts by reference the standards, specifications, rules and regulations of the National Fire Protection Association as compiled and published as the national electrical code, 2005 edition (NFPA no. 70-2005) (hereinafter referred to as the NEC), and the 2006 ICC electrical code, as amended, three (3) copies of each shall be kept on file in the city clerk's office for public inspection. (Ord. 06-301, 12-19-2006, eff. 1-1-2007)

5-1F-2: AMENDMENTS:

1.Section 603, Alternative Engineered Design: Delete in its entirety.

2.Chapter 11, Means Of Appeal: Delete in its entirety. (Ord. 02-31, 2-19-2002, eff. 4-8-2002)

5-1F-3: WIRING METHODS:

The wiring methods specified in chapter 3 of the NEC will be permitted by this article, except as noted below:

1. Article 336 - Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable: Type NM, type NMC, and type NMS cables shall only be permitted to be used in the following: Temporary wiring in accordance with NEC article 590 or low voltage lighting systems less than 30 volts in accordance with NEC article 411.

2. Article 338 - Service-Entrance Cable: Type SE cables shall only be permitted to be used in temporary wiring in accordance with NEC article 590. (Ord. 06-301, 12-19-2006, eff. 1-1-2007)


I know it's old but it hasn't changed


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
reply to SuperNet9
The water heater and AC will need to be replaced soon. If your home includes a home warranty, they should replace it for you if it craps out on you within the first year. I would probably pro-actively replace the WH because when they go, they tend to leak and the water damage can cost more than the WH to fix. The AC, run it till the wheels fall off. Friend of mine bought a home with a 20+ year old Trane and the thing still worked fine.

It doesn't hurt to ask, but I wouldn't expect the sellers to cough up another $10k simply because the AC and water heater in the home are old. You're buying an old home and it was likely priced that way. If things are non-functional and you were expecting them to work (i.e. the attic fan) when you made an offer, that's different. I would also ask them to correct the safety and code issues.

Overall those issues seem typical of an older home. All homes will have some issues. They would not stop me from buying the house, but you do need to budget to replace the AC at some point. If you're not comfortable with that you have there right to walk away from the deal. Then you know to ask those questions before you make an offer.
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Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

2 recommendations

reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

No it the result of Unions influencing building requirements. Romex is fine and used everywhere the Unions have not colluded with local officials to ban it making work for them at extra expense for the builder and buyers. If Romex is not safe in IL then it's not safe anywhere. Perhaps the NEC should not allow it.

Blame them for everything. Unions make up roughly 7% of the private sector work force. I think you are using them as a scapegoat, like many people do. It is more like the electrical industry as a whole influencing things, instead, if this is the case. You neglect to mention the political influence of large non-union building trades organizations such as ABC. »www.abc.org/Government_Affairs/P···tee.aspx


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
= Lurch77 See Profile]

Blame them for everything. Unions make up roughly 7% of the private sector work force. I think you are using them as a scapegoat, like many people do. It is more like the electrical industry as a whole influencing things

If that were the case it would be much more widespread instead of being concentrated in very strong union states like IL.

, instead, if this is the case. You neglect to mention the political influence of large non-union building trades organizations such as ABC. »www.abc.org/Government_Affairs/P···tee.aspx

quote:
The purpose of ABC PAC is to work within the federal election process to further the goals of the association through direct involvement in supporting and opposing candidates for the Office of President, United States Senate and United States House of Representatives. This is accomplished through educating our members on the importance of political activism and through financial support of merit shop candidates.

If you can explain to me what this has to do with Romex being banned in some states, I would appreciate it.


toby
Troy Mcclure

join:2001-11-13
Portland, OR
reply to SuperNet9
What you need to remember with home inspectors is that they will always find a problem, even if there isn't a problem.

The have to make you feel like you got your moneys worth.

#3 and #6 are the only broken items, everything is nice to have in a perfect world, but then the house would cost more kind of things.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to Jack_in_VA
They have, like national unions, local offices. And they petition political figures and entities the same way to get what they want. Trust me when I say the members of an organization like ABC will do whatever it takes to get more work, just like you say about the unions.

That aside, it bothers me when people make claims like you did without having any proof backing up the claim. WI is a very strong union state, as is Michigan. And there are many others. IL is the only one that has a no romex law, as far as I am aware. To say it is because of unions just seems like another anti-union person looking to blame them for yet something else.


nunya
LXI 483
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join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
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·surpasshosting
reply to SuperNet9
To clarify things:
I do hold one license in Illinois. They do not have statewide licensing. It's municipal. The NEC is adopted and amended on the local level in IL.
Up north, it's very common to have "romex free" areas. I'm not aware of any municipalities that allow SEU / SER except in the country (rural areas). Most require everything in the service to be hard piped (heavywall or IMC), no aluminum pipe or wire.
Some places don't allow 15A circuits.
Yes, IL is very quirky.

To the OP: the fact that they used Romex and not conduit means they didn't get permits for the work. You might want to check into that closer. It will be an issue when you sell as well. It could also be an issue if you have to get a C.O.O.
--
...because I care.

AricBrown

join:2002-12-11
Amarillo, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Hall
said by Hall:

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit.

I'm not disputing your statement, but I looked at Lowes for Naperville IL and they sell Romex. Can't be much demand for it... Yes, I realize people could buy it and use it out of state, but that's not very practical.

Doesn't New York (City) have similar requirements of using flexible metal conduit (and effectively no Romex) ?

The city I live in does not allow 14 gauge wire only 12 for normal residential construction. Both lowes and home depot sell it. But I can use Romex

So just because you cant use it doesn't mean you cant buy it.


grobinette
Southeast of disorder
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-27
Springfield, VA
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to SuperNet9
Guys, did SuperNet9 See Profile ask about romex, conduit or opinions on unions?

He just asked for some advice on an inspectors report.

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to SuperNet9
Walk, no, run away, its a money pit and you have un-permitted renovations done, its unlikely the bathroom isn't the only thing the weekend warriors messed with.

In this market, its finical suicide to invest in a property with so many expensive items that will require replacement.

I would look the property up in Zillow.com and then subtract 50K minimum, as the offer to purchase price, the AC ( 8k), Heat( 3K), Hotwater(500) and roof(12K) all need to be replaced and all code violation fixed and signed off by the building department before you could resell the property

Why did you pick this home?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to SuperNet9
said by SuperNet9:

Well I got an inspector for a house I am thinking of buying

1) He said the AC unit is about 15 years old...
2) He said the new bathroom they built the type of wiring isn't code (see attached pic, the middle pic). (is it ok wiring ??)
3)The Attic fan isn't working
4)The roof has about 10 years on it left..
5) The water heater is 15 years old ( that still good?)
6)Bathroom fan isn't working
7) The Attached 2 car garage has some spots where it isn't patched so the fumes can get into the house.

Other than that, the house seems fine... If I wanted to fix/replace things he said, how much would it cost? Should I go with a house with these types of issues?

I think you should run as fast as you can away from this house. You may get a good purchase price but it will be downhill from then on never ending money pit.


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

1 recommendation

A water heater, AC and some fans not working is not a reason to run IMO. You're gonna be hard pressed to find a house that doesn't need something fixed. Even a brand new one. We bought our current house in 2005 and have since replaced the furnace, A/C, water heater, upgraded the electrical and remodeled the kitchen and basement.

You're never gonna find a house that needs no repairs. Ask the sellers to do it or adjust your offer so you can do it your self.
Expand your moderator at work


Sly
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Chuckey, TN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to SuperNet9

Re: What the home insecptor found...

Age is not very important when it comes to water heater life. Maintenance is... If someone has regularly flushed out the tank and has replaced the anode rod as needed, a water heater will practically last forever...

As for the A/C, if it doesn't leak then why replace it with a new one? I replaced the contactor, capacitors and some old wiring connections in mine and cleaned out the duct work and blower cage. Maintenance and some light repair goes a long way.

I didn't replace my truck once it got old and I don't plan on replacing my heat pump either. Just rebuild it. A/C techs make too much money off trying to sell someone a "new car" every time they need an oil change. /metaphor

As for the attic fan, I would just recommend getting rid of it. If you install a thermal barrier, a ridge vent and working soffit vents then you shouldn't even need a fan and your house will stay cooler and your roof will last longer.


noninspector

@mindspring.com
reply to toby
As for home inspectors always finding a problem so you feel you got your money's worth, I have to disagree. I've used 4 different inspectors for houses I've bought in the past 15 years, and none of them were worth the fee paid. They found minor problems, but all missed major defects such as very little attic insulation (1"), a leaking roof, or a failing septic system that I as a somewhat uneducated homeowner discovered after the closing. Most home inspectors in my area are recommended by the Realtor, and they obviously don't want to bite the hand that feeds them by killing a deal.