dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
uniqs
137

johnB
@personainc.net

johnB to avenison

Anon

to avenison

Re: Sudbury ON - FibreOP FTTH - job fair Thursday 6pm

Hello fellow Sudburians,

I work for Bell and will bring you all up to speed! Garson and New Sudbury are being rolled out first, July 5th is the target date. The work is being done by a contractor, VistaCare, out of Nova Scotia. Garson has been completely wired, and New Sudbury is being aggressively worked on to meet the target date. Behind A&W the main splices are being done as I type, and the fibre lines are being strung along Woodbine/Holland and all the connecting side roads. The entire length of Lasalle from Barrydowne to Notredame, both side, is being completed, followed by the other side from Barrydowne to Falconbridge. The Valley and Chelmsford are also in the works right now, but aren't going to be completed until August. Only two retailers, the Bell store in the mall and the Lefebvre store on the corner of lasalle@notredame will be selling the product, and the 1800 number of coarse.

It is a very exciting product, and Sudbury is the only city west of Quebec that has a FTTH network this extensive, very fortunate. Whether you are a Eastlink fan or a Bell fan, the heated competition in Sudbury is excellent for the consumer as we are able to access some of the best broadband services in the entire continent.

Feel free to ask me any questions, I will try my best to help!

Cheers
Riplin
join:2002-05-13
canada

Riplin

Member

is eastlink panicking? putting billboards up offering 200mbps now for 249.00/mth with a pathetic 250gb cap? what a joke.

This numbers game is getting stupid. grow up. wtf do we need 30mbps up for? give us better dl 70 or 100 with a nice 10mbps up for a decent price with no cap and you'll sink vianet and eastlink.

30mbps up? /Riplin shakes his head


johnB
@personainc.net

johnB

Anon

The 30mbps upload speed is going to be an excellent advantage for those who upload large files. Adding videos to YouTube, services such as iCloud, and adding photos to Facebook are all examples of when a high upload speed will make a dramatic difference. This is one area of FibreOP that cable cannot match completely.
Riplin
join:2002-05-13
canada

Riplin

Member

Meh, you don't need 30mbps to ul useless youtube videos or pictures to facecrack. Only benefit to 30+up is to maintain retarded ratio's on private tor sites or run a business where you need to send large media files out. I'm just saying gimme a 70/10 for 69.95/mth and you'll suck people in way more

BliZZardX
Premium Member
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
·Bell Fibe Internet

1 edit

BliZZardX

Premium Member

You shouldn't pick bones with the speed when your real issue is price. It doesn't cost any more to deliver 1000Mbps than it does 30Mbps.

If I was in charge of plans I would sell this unlimited

10/10 $10 (priced like Comcast Internet Essentials for low income homes)
25/25 $25 (same deal above)
100/50 $50
100/100 $60
1000/100 $100
1000/1000 $120

nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

nitzguy to johnB

Premium Member

to johnB
said by johnB :

The 30mbps upload speed is going to be an excellent advantage for those who upload large files. Adding videos to YouTube, services such as iCloud, and adding photos to Facebook are all examples of when a high upload speed will make a dramatic difference. This is one area of FibreOP that cable cannot match completely.

Makes sense...hey with large download speed you want the same upload speed to ensure that you don't have any choke points for http requests and other upload type requests....so I won't complain.

Will it be available in apartment buildings, or just single family homes? Its not quite clear...

Wow, Garson first eh....that's a new one . But that being said I'll be happy to wait until August....I'm sure Teksavvy won't be happy but meh...what can you do, and I do see the Bell markings around my area...so its exciting for sure....

johnB
@personainc.net

johnB

Anon

To address your comment regarding apartments,

Much like what is being done out east, areas where FibreOP isn't planned(underground subdivisions, apartments) will have access to IPTV service over their existing wiring. This is not in the works this year, but it is on the drawing board. Internet speed aside, this service is very similar to FibreOP from all outward appearances.

Here's how it works, and here is the major difference. IPTV service requires fibre to the node. Current technology allows for up to 25mbps download 10mbps upload. However, even though the customer is provisioned for 25/10, the customer will only get 15/10 on the data portion of the connection, and video(always takes precedence) has a minimum of 10mbps dedicated. If, for example, a customer is watching 3 HD channels and 1 SD channel, their internet speed would then be 5mbps max.

This is the type of service being offered by Telus(Optik) out west and by AT&T(uVerse) in the US. It is not FibreOP, but it is a very legitimate alternative to the cable company. It will be available to many apartment dwellers who are forced to subscribe to cable due to restrictions on satellite installations in their buildings.

file
join:2011-03-29
Riverview, NB

file to BliZZardX

Member

to BliZZardX
said by BliZZardX:

You shouldn't pick bones with the speed when your real issue is price. It doesn't cost any more to deliver 1000Mbps than it does 30Mbps.

While it doesn't cost any more to deliver that there is a minimal amount to cover expenses don't forget. As it is while this is lower than DSL providing a better profit margin it still takes Bell Aliant many (6+) months to even begin making money off you with current pricing.
file

file to Riplin

Member

to Riplin
said by Riplin:

30mbps up? /Riplin shakes his head

While it's possible that for you 30Mbps up may not be that useful once people discover what they can do with it it actually gets used and people appreciate it.

How about being able to watch your TV from anywhere with a Slingbox? You can do that now but with 30Mbps up you can provide a beautiful 8Mbps HD stream. It really does look nice.

Cloud backups are a popular thing these days. They are excruciating on other internet service but with 30Mbps up? Much better. They don't become a burden on your internet connection, they just work in the background as they should.

Something as simple as emailing with attachments. That's instant now.

The 30Mbps up is also popular with photographers who want to put photos up online for customers to see.

As a country most of us don't use upload based services or think about what we can do because we *can't*. FibreOP opens the door to that. Personally my opinion is that upload will become ever more important going forward.
file

file to Riplin

Member

to Riplin
said by Riplin:

Meh, you don't need 30mbps to ul useless youtube videos or pictures to facecrack. Only benefit to 30+up is to maintain retarded ratio's on private tor sites or run a business where you need to send large media files out. I'm just saying gimme a 70/10 for 69.95/mth and you'll suck people in way more

Final thought since I keep finding new stuff I want to address...

Here in Atlantic Canada where Eastlink already exists and had better plans (I say had because they improved Sudbury's ahead of FibreOP deployment to try to help so they are now equal) people are leaving Eastlink a lot. Install wait times average 3-4 weeks. This trend is the same with Rogers here in New Brunswick who has crapper plans. I suspect this will carry on to Sudbury so they won't *need* to suck people in way more. The service speaks for itself and the vast majority of people are fine with the pricing.

BliZZardX
Premium Member
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
·Bell Fibe Internet

1 edit

BliZZardX to file

Premium Member

to file
Whether you have 1Mbps or 1000Mbps, on GPON, the cost is the same. It's designed for 2.5/1.25Gbps, the standard says maximum splits is 32 customers and most ISPs pick 16.

Compare that with VDSL2. You share a 2x1Gbit line with up to 96 customers. They installed a remote in my building 2 years ago. On 12a at 200 meters loop length you can't get much more than 10Mbps upload on the Stingers. Less than 2 years later, if they want to offer 30Mbps up to compete with DOCSIS3, they have to gut and scrape the whole setup and replace it with fiber.

They recovered the cost in the first year. But it's still a waste of money to do everything twice.

file
join:2011-03-29
Riverview, NB

file

Member

The cost over the fiber is the same yes but there is a cost of acquiring you as a customer which includes the equipment (since it's all free), the cost of installation in your home, the cost of installing the broken down cost of your portion of the deployment, and the cost of the fiber itself. This has to be recouped somehow (monthly costs) which yields a minimum monthly charge. These costs remain the same no matter what the speed delivered is as you said.

Just to bring some perspective into things here in Atlantic Canada they aim, just for the deployment portion and cost of physical fiber for a customer, to have that be ~$650.

BliZZardX
Premium Member
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON

BliZZardX

Premium Member

With 50% adoption rate using GPON most ISPs are able to break even $10/month. I'm not sweating for Bell.

file
join:2011-03-29
Riverview, NB

file

Member

At an individual cost just for deployment of $650 per *potential* customer... how could they break even at $10/mth? It would take awhile for a customer to even recoup the cost of themselves let alone other customers.
Riplin
join:2002-05-13
canada

Riplin

Member

Here's a novel idea. How about letting customers that actually understand speeds when they call in let them choose their own down/up based on what they need and price it accordingly. You don't need to tell the general public about this because 95% of them are clueless so they only need the website with a few concrete pkg's set up cause all they look at is the bottom $ line.

If a first level sales person can't understand what the customer is asking for (and that will happen cause the script isn't right) let a 2nd level take over and complete the sale.

Trust me you won't have 10,000's of these type of inquiries just the people that know what they want and thats far and few between

file
join:2011-03-29
Riverview, NB

file

Member

That seems like trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. If you are trying to make the point that people won't buy the service because of the price you aren't going to convince me of that until the service is available for a period of time in Sudbury and you have evidence. Across all of Atlantic Canada people are flocking to FibreOP, even when cheaper or equivalent services are available from the competitors. In other cases FibreOP is actually cheaper in the end (of course, I'm referring to when in a bundle).

If ultimately this is all because you aren't happy with the pricing for your personal use, so be it, but don't extrapolate that to the masses until the masses have spoken.

BliZZardX
Premium Member
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
·Bell Fibe Internet

BliZZardX

Premium Member

There's all sorts of ways they can sell it.

Even the wireless model works, pay by usage blocks and forget the speeds, just give people what their line can get.

LTE-Advanced, up to 175Mbps
1GB
2GB
5GB
10GB
Fair use policy: throttle to 1Mbps after 10GB

FiberOp, up to 1000Mbps
50GB - $30
100GB - $40
1TB - $60
10TB - $100
20TB - $200
Unlimited - $250
Fair use policy: throttle to 10Mbps after 50TB

nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

nitzguy to johnB

Premium Member

to johnB
said by johnB :

To address your comment regarding apartments,

Much like what is being done out east, areas where FibreOP isn't planned(underground subdivisions, apartments) will have access to IPTV service over their existing wiring. This is not in the works this year, but it is on the drawing board. Internet speed aside, this service is very similar to FibreOP from all outward appearances.

Here's how it works, and here is the major difference. IPTV service requires fibre to the node. Current technology allows for up to 25mbps download 10mbps upload. However, even though the customer is provisioned for 25/10, the customer will only get 15/10 on the data portion of the connection, and video(always takes precedence) has a minimum of 10mbps dedicated. If, for example, a customer is watching 3 HD channels and 1 SD channel, their internet speed would then be 5mbps max.

This is the type of service being offered by Telus(Optik) out west and by AT&T(uVerse) in the US. It is not FibreOP, but it is a very legitimate alternative to the cable company. It will be available to many apartment dwellers who are forced to subscribe to cable due to restrictions on satellite installations in their buildings.

I see. Are any apartment buildings going to be able to get it at all? I only ask this because currently I'm probably a rarity and get ADSL2 16/1 service from the CO itself....only because the CO in question is in a residential neighbourhood....

Just wondered...also see markings for what I'm guessing will be FibreOp boxes in the area....just curious.

file
join:2011-03-29
Riverview, NB

2 edits

file to BliZZardX

Member

to BliZZardX
said by BliZZardX:

There's all sorts of ways they can sell it.

Even the wireless model works, pay by usage blocks and forget the speeds, just give people what their line can get.

FiberOp, up to 1000Mbps
50GB - $30
100GB - $40
1TB - $60
10TB - $100
20TB - $200
Unlimited - $250
Fair use policy: throttle to 10Mbps after 50TB

That would cover the cost of bandwidth but I have serious reservations for whether it would allow a healthy payback of the customer acquisition cost and still have a profit margin. Long term it would be possible.

So really my opinion can be summed up as this: Right now the packages and approach Bell Aliant has taken is good for sustaining their business and continuing deployment. Once they have settled down the deployment and built up some money in the bank they could change to a different model and it wouldn't hurt things. Right now they are investing everything and don't have the money to spare to change.

JohnB
@184.151.61.x

JohnB to nitzguy

Anon

to nitzguy
It is very possible that some buildings will be getting FibreOP installed, it was done out east usually in a partnership between the building owner and Bell Aliant. There are many ways to install it relatively easily into apartments, running the wires on the exterior being the most common. There really is no reason why it cannot be done, provided they convince the owners that the wiring will be visually acceptable. But like I said, the popular choice out east, and in larger cities seems to be IPTV.
Riplin
join:2002-05-13
canada

Riplin to file

Member

to file
I'm not extrapolating anything, the masses will always be the masses, I just don't like being lumped in with them.

I'm just saying give us more speed options only if we inquire.

Use the script for the masses.

nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

nitzguy to JohnB

Premium Member

to JohnB
said by JohnB :

It is very possible that some buildings will be getting FibreOP installed, it was done out east usually in a partnership between the building owner and Bell Aliant. There are many ways to install it relatively easily into apartments, running the wires on the exterior being the most common. There really is no reason why it cannot be done, provided they convince the owners that the wiring will be visually acceptable. But like I said, the popular choice out east, and in larger cities seems to be IPTV.

IPTV doesn't interest me lol....I haven't had a "cable" or "satellite" subscription in about 3 years now...not looking to go back to that....just want more speed....

Anywho, I guess I'll learn more in the future....

habskilla
join:2005-09-19
Moncton, NB

habskilla to JohnB

Member

to JohnB
something like this:
»i1238.photobucket.com/al ··· 0003.jpg

»i1238.photobucket.com/al ··· 0771.jpg
zuli86
join:2012-07-14
Sudbury, ON

zuli86 to johnB

Member

to johnB
Just out of curiosity, how will Bell Aliant be handling neighborhoods whose cables run underground ? I'm in the south end which has lots of newer neighborhoods. I'll guess that's why other areas of Sudbury were done first ?

JohnB
@personainc.net

JohnB

Anon

Areas with underground wires will only be able to get Bell Fibe TV. It is similar to FibreOP. The main difference is that the fibre stops at the node so internet speeds aren't as high. Still an acceptable alternative to Eastlink.
zuli86
join:2012-07-14
Sudbury, ON

zuli86

Member

A buddy called Bell Aliant and they stated that if there is an existing conduit underground they will pull the line through. They just aren't digging at this point.