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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

Re: The Greedy Hacker

giving it away for free might have gotten him even as little as probation. charging for the tool made it clear he was offering theft of service tools as a business.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

said by Kearnstd:

giving it away for free might have gotten him even as little as probation. charging for the tool made it clear he was offering theft of service tools as a business.

So if I sell locksmith tools, or firearms I am offering criminal tools as a business?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


not

@comcast.net

said by NormanS:

So if I sell locksmith tools, or firearms I am offering criminal tools as a business?

No, but if you were selling tools and instructions on how to make guns full automatics, that would land you in jail. Learn to give proper analogies if you're going to do it. He was charged with selling ILLEGAL things. That's the crime here. Really even giving away ILLEGAL things is against the law, but in this case since he made .5 to 1 million + in profits doing this, it looked even worse to the judge.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

said by not :

No, but if you were selling tools and instructions on how to make guns full automatics, that would land you in jail. Learn to give proper analogies if you're going to do it. He was charged with selling ILLEGAL things. That's the crime here. Really even giving away ILLEGAL things is against the law, but in this case since he made .5 to 1 million + in profits doing this, it looked even worse to the judge.

Nothing wrong with my analogy: Show me the criminal statute which makes it illegal to sell information about making autofiring weapons.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Montezuma

join:2009-11-15
reply to not

said by not :

said by NormanS:

So if I sell locksmith tools, or firearms I am offering criminal tools as a business?

No, but if you were selling tools and instructions on how to make guns full automatics, that would land you in jail. Learn to give proper analogies if you're going to do it. He was charged with selling ILLEGAL things. That's the crime here. Really even giving away ILLEGAL things is against the law, but in this case since he made .5 to 1 million + in profits doing this, it looked even worse to the judge.

You obviously do not understand how the law works. Selling information on converting semi-automatic firearms to select fire or full automatic is not only not a crime, but it is protected by the First Amendment. Selling parts to convert firearms from semiautomatic to select fire, or full automatic(there is a difference) is also completely legal. The problem comes when someone that has not paid his or her SOT(Special Occupation Tax, which is $500 for those selling less than $500,000 in merchandise and $1,000 for selling over $500,000 in merchandise), in addition to having a FFL(Federal Firearms License) converts a semiautomatic firearm to select fire, or full automatic. Of course, there are other requirements, but that covers the general issues and it is only important to those that are in the business. Still, the information(the correct information) is freely available.

There is a "constructive intent" heading in the ATF's regulations, but that requires one to meet certain criteria. Having the instructions and/or the parts alone, or selling those items, is not covered by that. Oh, but, by all means, continue spreading the damned lies you are attempting to spread here. I will make sure I am around to make you look as dumb as you actually are.

As far as this case is concerned, I believe the conviction to be wrong. Selling information should never be wrong. Mr. Harris was not forcing people to se the information he provided.

You might enjoy having government telling you what you can and cannot know, but I don't. I can promise you that I have more people on my side than you do on your side.

Now, I am going to go back to gathering information about converting firearms and hacking cable "modems".


not

@comcast.net

It's not about what is perceived as legal and what is not. Like it or not, some thing (while not written as law in such details ways) is still convictable each and every day. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be reading this story. Either this guy had an idiot for a lawyer or the judge (while upholding the written law) still found something to convict about. The law is bent each and every day by both those that are criminals and those that are in law enforcement. Sure, you can argue all you want about certain things and while certain Constitutional rights are given to you, they are also taken away with small statues to those rights via local/state/federal laws. It is what it is... I don't like it either, but trust me when I say this. If someone wants to convict you of something, you WILL be convicted of it, no matter how much you think it was legal or not. Unfortunately, that's the new way of the law. The best thing you can do is stay within your legal written rights based on where you are. I don't like it, but that's what it has come to and as a single person I'm not going to jeopardize my own well-being by taking a stand against it. All that does is land your singular ass in jail. Thanks, but no thanks...

This guy made millions of dollars from selling information that lead or could lead to illegal actions by others. Someone wanted to shut him down and make an example of... that's what happened. I'm pretty sure there's law somewhere written that allowed this to happen or could be interpreted in such a manner as to allow this to happen. Read the court papers on it if you doubt this.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

said by not :

Sure, you can argue all you want about certain things and while certain Constitutional rights are given to you

Not one single Constitutional right has been "given" to one single person. From the Declaration of Independence:
quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights ...

The U.S. Constitution grants powers of state to the government, not rights to the people.

... they are also taken away with small statues to those rights via local/state/federal laws.

Most statutes balance my right to pursue happiness against your right to life and liberty.

It is what it is... I don't like it either, but trust me when I say this. If someone wants to convict you of something, you WILL be convicted of it, no matter how much you think it was legal or not. Unfortunately, that's the new way of the law. The best thing you can do is stay within your legal written rights based on where you are. I don't like it, but that's what it has come to and as a single person I'm not going to jeopardize my own well-being by taking a stand against it. All that does is land your singular ass in jail. Thanks, but no thanks...

So you would not have joined die Weiße Rose?

This guy made millions of dollars from selling information that lead or could lead to illegal actions by others. Someone wanted to shut him down and make an example of... that's what happened. I'm pretty sure there's law somewhere written that allowed this to happen or could be interpreted in such a manner as to allow this to happen. Read the court papers on it if you doubt this.

No doubt; just as German law made an example of the key figures of die Weiße Rose.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum