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somms

join:2003-07-28
Salt Lake City, UT
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: Watching this closely.

said by ITALIAN926:

quote:
FIOS is so far removed from true muni FTTP or FTTH installs it isn't even funny...

Greedy incumbent Verizon FIOS has contracts, non-symmetrical speeds that don't come close to 1Gbps and no further roll-outs!
They dont require contracts, I have 35/35Mbps, and they offer 300Mbps, a speed that less then 1% of the population truly needs. So, thats 3 Strikes, next batter.

»my.verizon.com/micro/Policies/TO···n=bundle

FIOS BUNDLE CUSTOMER AGREEMENT
THIS AGREEMENT CONTAINS IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING
YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS AND VERIZON'S.
PLEASE REVIEW IT CAREFULLY


TERMINATION OF SERVICE; EARLY TERMINATION FEES

A.After the Minimum Term, you will no longer receive the FiOS Bundle discounted rates for the Services and, unless otherwise agreed to or other discounts are made available by Verizon, your Services will automatically convert to existing higher, non-discounted month-to-month rates for the Services.

B.AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE WILL APPLY IF YOU CHOOSE TO TERMINATE ALL OF THE SERVICES OR IF YOU CANCEL A SERVICE THAT IS PART OF THE FIOS BUNDLE BEFORE COMPLETING YOUR MINIMUM TERM, EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED IN THIS AGREEMENT.

Early Termination Fe

FiOS DP
$119

FiOS TP
$179


May want to review your TOS. Sure smells like a contract with a ETF to me straight off Verizon FIOS website!


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Contracts are optional


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to somms
said by somms:

.... Sure smells like a contract with a ETF to me straight.....

Your fiber has an EFT too. just in a different form.
If enough people discontinue early, the muni collapses and your locality pays the price either directly or as a hit on their bonding authority. Which hurts not only those that wanted fiber, but both those that didn't want it or couldn't afford it.


somms

join:2003-07-28
Salt Lake City, UT

2 edits
said by tshirt:

said by somms:

.... Sure smells like a contract with a ETF to me straight.....

Your fiber has an EFT too. just in a different form.
If enough people discontinue early, the muni collapses and your locality pays the price either directly or as a hit on their bonding authority. Which hurts not only those that wanted fiber, but both those that didn't want it or couldn't afford it.

That is trying much too hard to put a spin on contracts and ETFs.

My FTTH is cheaper per month (starting at $35/month for 50Mbps up/down) than either of the big local incumbents (Xfinity/Century Link), is able to provide much faster speeds (up to 1Gbps) and comes with NO contract or ETFs with over a half-dozen individual ISPs offering services that encourages much needed competition!

»www.utopianet.org/residential

BTW: Utopia has been around for almost a decade and is far from failing since they are currently installing fiber throughout the state which is the opposite of FIOS that has ceased expansion...


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
But the gist of my post is in fact correct, if the project fails the citizens are the responsible parties. Correct?
And of the 16 cities only 10 have been "wired" or partly wired to the homes. in fact Layton just began their rollout this spring despite having "pledged" $2.1 million per year for 20 years, starting 10 years ago.

I'm not opposed to FTTH or muni, IF you are are realistic about the cost, the risk, and the timeframe required.
When YOU gloss over all those things plus "virtually" scream post after post about the horror of those private companies TRYING to achive similar systems while reaching far more homes far more quickly than Utopians can ever hope for, YOU discredit much of the positive info you could share.

Sure the ftth and D3 cable providers are higher priced, because
1} They went a borrowed the cost of the massive buildouts, in advance, from private investors.
2} borrowing in advance rather than waiting for funds to accrue as Utopia does is expensive
3}the company and the investors shouldering the risk, rather than the local property owners holding all the responsibility is expensive
4} the companies and the investor took this risk on the basis that in return they were more likely than not to recieve the return of capital plus interest, plus profit for having take the risk.

if we were to attempt to build out the US purely from Muni's the timeline, based on utopia's progress would be in the 20-30 year range, where private solutions, (in particular cable) now reaches a high percentage of homes and with proper incentives could be all D3(or better) within 10 years at (looking at today's speeds) able to serve MOST people with speeds to the 100's of Mbps (Comcast is rumor to be offering 300/?, soon)

So i guess it's a choice between waiting a long time for Muni Gbit, or accept that each solutions helps and seeing most of the US at useful speeds within this decade.


somms

join:2003-07-28
Salt Lake City, UT
said by tshirt:

YOU discredit much of the positive info you could share.

I used to be stuck with the subpar and very expensive Comcast/Xfinity or whatever they have rebranded themselves as this fiscal quarter. I'm not sure why you are beating the corporate drum and using their talking points unless you work there!? After more than a decade NO cities have become bankrupt or will ever become bankrupt due to Utopia unlike the cities in CA and Scranton, PA. You are just spreading the corporate scare tatics used to defeat these fiber startups from ever being created...


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
Work there? not at all, just realistic about what motivates investors to invest and there fore companies to do this or that.
and able to see Utopia does carry risks which are part of the reason for the slow build out and the reason you only have 16 cities scheduled to participate.
The fact that cities are going broke over a lot of over extensions of their bonding authority among other things, is exactly why I urge caution.

I do think getting it done is important, but everyone at risk needs to really understand the potential, both up and down, and also see that this is not all that is required to profit from better connectivy, you must train the current and future workforce to do PRODUCTIVE things with it.

PONG at 1Gbps isn't going to pay for it.


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

if we were to attempt to build out the US purely from Muni's the timeline, based on utopia's progress would be in the 20-30 year range, where private solutions, (in particular cable) now reaches a high percentage of homes and with proper incentives could be all D3(or better) within 10 years at (looking at today's speeds) able to serve MOST people with speeds to the 100's of Mbps (Comcast is rumor to be offering 300/?, soon)

So i guess it's a choice between waiting a long time for Muni Gbit, or accept that each solutions helps and seeing most of the US at useful speeds within this decade.

You are missing the point: there is no real competition in broadband between telco DSL, Fios, or cable. Satellite is a joke, and 4G broadband will cost you a 2nd mortgage if you attempt to use it. The reason this country is so far behind on broadband speeds (compared globally) isn't because there's a lot of square miles here. If that was the case then dense cities would have affordable 1Gps connections available as default for consumers. No, the real reason is because the providers aren't competing. There is no real competition.

In addition, the telco duopoloy is waiting for government hand outs to help subsidize broadband deployment, especially in rural areas. Why should we provide tax payer money to these private corporations and not seriously consider muni broadband deployment? At least with muni it is an investment in the community, and the end result is fast speeds at an affordable price.