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This is a sub-selection from Can you really blame them?

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to Jon Geb

Re: Can you really blame them?

I agree! However, they should have just given the money to wisps that will serve the rural areas with say wimax or lte or something. Its easier for them to get up and running so to speak than muni isps and they usually do a good job at providing service too.

Also there should be a clause or whatever you wanna call it in all bills that give money to isps saying any lines/towers/ect paid for with government money can never be capped or throttled. A pipe dream? Probably but if we're paying for it they should play by our rules.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

WISP's still need backhaul which this bill doesn't even have enough money to upgrade everywhere.
That's why they refused, when you dictate unrealistic terms like uncapped, unthrottled, price restricted, not for profit, you drive away those with the most experience in engineering, construction, management and and longterm financing of telecommunication systems in the world.

If you take away the profit motive entirely you remove their only incentive for showing you to work. (see, people and corparations ARE similar)

So you can pay the big boys to do it right now, or let them build THEIR system when THEY are ready, or the Gov't can hire some second rate contractors to slowly assemble some fubar cluster f88k designed by neverending committies, or they can dole out the money to a bunch of small projects each built differently on the whims of a few professionals leading alot of pipedreamers.
which do you think will end up with the most cohesive, functional, standardized, serviceable, and viable system to the most places, soonest.


me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

I don't want them to be non-profit or have fixed prices I am 100% against that, I just feel that if we are footing the bill for the infrastructure they will be using they should not be able to cap/throttle us.

"So you can pay the big boys to do it right now, or let them build THEIR system when THEY are ready"

Thats kinds what they are doing, using lte(wireless) to reach rural people. I'm not thrilled about the government doing it this way tbh, I'd rather private companies do it.

Uncapped/unthrottled is not unrealistic, I use a rual wisp with no cap or throttle, great ping times, wonderful customer service, got no money from the government when they started. Been in business for the better part of a decade so they must be making enough profit to pay for the business costs, their(owners') salaries, and the salaries of their 4 or 5 full employees. Been competing for c-link/embarq for most of that time, they offer better prices for VoIP users them c-tel does.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

What's their name? Will they share any info on how they achived that? What sort of speed do you get?

I think the point is the bigger players want in that (generic- rural area wireless )market but are considering going with the public money IF they can be conviniced it is on their terms (no they'll never be as cheap or flexible as your local guys, it's a differnt sort of business building many large scale plants with other peoples money) or considering public/ private deals (maybe on a more local basis) with specific terms rates and INVESTMENT directly from the community served by it a town, a county or a state (kind of muni with a proffesional partner .



Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

I'd like to know who they are, too.

..probably the reason they succeded is due to them caring more about the community and their customers instead of gouging the crap out of them. Most of the bigger companies don't give a crap if you live in the dark ages.. unless it's highly profitable and they can regain their ROI in a week.



Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
reply to tshirt

said by tshirt:

the Gov't can hire some second rate contractors to slowly assemble some fubar cluster f88k designed by neverending committies, or they can dole out the money to a bunch of small projects each built differently on the whims of a few professionals leading alot of pipedreamers.

Hey.. Watch it. Some of us in small communities actually know what we're doing and can easily do it with the proper equipment and backbone.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo]

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to tshirt

How they achieve that, I don't know. I know they service the vast majority of cass country MO's rual area(some of jackson and johnson too) So they are big for a wisp. I get 1.2m on average, costs $45 a month, $15 less than what c-tel wanted to charge me for 1.5m and a home run line so I could use voip. Best customer service I've seen anywhere, only one time did we call for them to come work on stuff were they not there within two hours, that was when a storm had knocked out a bunch of their equipment(both on tower and radios in people's yards). So like Simba(freaking love that movie) said, they care about their customers, the owner of the isp actually leaves his office and works out in the field.

Name is KC web, been with them going on 5 years now, 4.5 longer than c-tel has serviced my road. Not 100% who they buy from, last I checked it was a backbone provider they bought from but that was a year or so ago.


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to tshirt

quote:
WISP's still need backhaul which this bill doesn't even have enough money to upgrade everywhere.

This is true. WISPs are nothing without the backbone provided by the telecoms and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

But, as Simba7 said, there is more than enough talent outside of the big companies to complete these types of projects. In reality, it is the big companies themselves that drive away the best, brightest, and most talented in the field... they are just too expensive. Large companies don't want the 'best system'... they want the highest profit margins. Paying for the best talent is not in line with that way of thinking. Hell, there is a steady flow of laid-off managers and engineers out of Verizon as they try to cut costs, plenty of talent right there! In the current contract negotiation, one of the company's sticking points is they want the ability to replace us with second rate contractors. In fact, everything you point out as a negative for government doing these types of projects is inherent in big-business too.

Sure the government(s) suffer from political hurdles & red tape but that is a problem with government in general, not broadband projects specifically. At the end of the day, I have roads to drive on (which get plowed in the winter), water, police & fire depts, my garbage picked up, a functional court system, etc, etc, etc. all done by this supposedly inept, crippled, useless organization.

I am all for community broadband/fiber projects and I think they will be highly successful if the 'big boys' continue on their current anti-progressive course.


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits
reply to Simba7

said by Simba7:

said by tshirt:

..... each built differently on the whims of a few professionals.... .

Hey.. Watch it. Some of us in small communities actually know what we're doing and can easily do it with the proper equipment and backbone.

I did recognize that there are skilled people out there, but if you came from a smaller ISP, you probably aren't thinking of running the next AT&T clone (as I said different set/scale of skills, not better just different) and if you came from the AT&Tborg you probably were compartmentalized enough that you only actively practiced part of the skill set needed to run large scale operations.

Small scale requires a different mindset/series of compromises due to budget and size.

I'm all in favor of finding providers like me1212 See Profile's and observing their operations to build a more standard model to recieve grants/loans towards more coverage.
the prolem comes when part way through the process some of the potential customers say "those speeds aren't fast enough lets bump it forward another generation of equipment, or double the number of towers, or double the backhaul...without thinking about the cost/payback time for the investment (I'm thinking of a community financed type project here) sure you can get the 500 needed, willing to pledge to take service now, but will they(or new owners of those homes) still be satisfied/paying customers all the way to the 10 year mark needed to pay the bonds on todays equipment?
Will the subs be willing and able to pay more for incremental upgrades to enhance the system you build today to keep the speeds and capabilities somewhat more current?