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This is a sub-selection from [Poll] First to MoP

Vinceruos_t

join:2012-05-04
reply to JB

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

"currently there really is no reason not to LoLsteamroll10mans."

I am not sure what you are talking about. 25 man is wayyyyyyyyyyyy easier then 10 man is by a pretty large amount for several reasons. The only thing that makes 25 man "harder" is that its more of a pain to find get the logistics down of getting 25 people on at the same time. And yes I have done both 10 and 25 man for every raid this expac.



JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

said by Vinceruos_t:

"currently there really is no reason not to LoLsteamroll10mans."

I am not sure what you are talking about. 25 man is wayyyyyyyyyyyy easier then 10 man is by a pretty large amount for several reasons. The only thing that makes 25 man "harder" is that its more of a pain to find get the logistics down of getting 25 people on at the same time. And yes I have done both 10 and 25 man for every raid this expac.

Me too, and I've done 8/8H DS and H FL on both of them. The one fight I can think of in H DS that is 'harder' on 10man is a melee heavy gunship comp. First time we had an all ranged group comp it was a 1 shot, next time we had 3melee/2ranged it took us a handful of attempts, but still easily doable. H Hagara is about the same after seeing the fight more than once in 10man, but the strats for that fight are much simpler in 25m.
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.


Treebark
Premium
join:2010-03-04
Havelock, NC
kudos:1
reply to Vinceruos_t

I dont know, 10 mans, you can only have a few fuck ups, 25 mans, so many people can still carry. Couldnt in the start but got easier for 10 mans. 25 mans are still more epic unless the 10 man is a close group.



McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
reply to JB

I agree that H Hagara is much easier with 25 people.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Treebark

said by Treebark:

I dont know, 10 mans, you can only have a few fuck ups, 25 mans, so many people can still carry. Couldnt in the start but got easier for 10 mans. 25 mans are still more epic unless the 10 man is a close group.

Ya running 25's is awesome.

Waiting for the last 10 people to show up for over an hour and then having to tell 5 people sorry maybe next time stinks, then having the 10 you'd been waiting for show up mid boss fight.

I'd love to be doing 25's but the attendance boss is a killer.

If they make the legendary(s) in MoP 25man only then they need to split the lock otherwise its crap.

Back in wrath the pug I was joining week after week was running 25 and 10 every week, till the lock change, then it changed to guild only and 10man.


Treebark
Premium
join:2010-03-04
Havelock, NC
kudos:1

The 10 man/25 man lock out should go back to the way it was!



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

said by Treebark:

The 10 man/25 man lock out should go back to the way it was!

If that happens then I'd be over joyed.

I could run the 10 with my guild and join a pug for 25.
And use the pug to find a good 25 group that raids at a time that works for me.


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

said by DarkLogix:

said by Treebark:

The 10 man/25 man lock out should go back to the way it was!

If that happens then I'd be over joyed.

I could run the 10 with my guild and join a pug for 25.
And use the pug to find a good 25 group that raids at a time that works for me.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to do the opposite, don't ya think?
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.


Treebark
Premium
join:2010-03-04
Havelock, NC
kudos:1

I read his shit and disagree! 25 man with guild, and pug 10 mans!



Treebark
Premium
join:2010-03-04
Havelock, NC
kudos:1

That's what Barry Stinson would do!



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to JB

said by JB:

said by DarkLogix:

said by Treebark:

The 10 man/25 man lock out should go back to the way it was!

If that happens then I'd be over joyed.

I could run the 10 with my guild and join a pug for 25.
And use the pug to find a good 25 group that raids at a time that works for me.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to do the opposite, don't ya think?

Well my current guild only has the people to do 10mans.

Joining 25man pugs would be a good way to find a group that does 25mans and is good, then see about changing guilds.

So far every guild I've joined with the intent of raiding I've first joined a pug that was mostly them, then asked if I could join their guild and was told yes. (well short of one guild I joined but that was because the others all joined it when they left the old guild.)


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Treebark

said by Treebark:

I read his shit and disagree! 25 man with guild, and pug 10 mans!

Well if my guild had the people to do 25mans then YES great.

I'd love to do 25mans, but the current guild can't and I'd rather sample guilds first before losing all the rep I built up and leaving a guild to find a replacement.

And at that point it'd be 10's and 25's with guild
I mean once the guild has the people to do 25's why pug a 10 just guild run it after the 25.


Treebark
Premium
join:2010-03-04
Havelock, NC
kudos:1

Sorry, me, JB, and a few other older posters are used to 25 man guilds.
That is why we thank 10's are easier.



JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to DarkLogix

just was saying the quality of 25man pugs would be terrifying (think more fail LFR, if that is possible) where as hoping in a 10man pug, maybe you could get lucky a score a guild run.

regardless, we're talking about something that isn't going to happen =P
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to Treebark

said by Treebark:

Sorry, me, JB, and a few other other posters are used to 25 man guilds.
That is why we thank 10's are easier.

Ya I just haven't had much luck finding one that raids late enough at night.

I don't get home till 8:30-9pm cst so most guilds are already done for the day or are already well into the raid.

I just joined a new guild the other week but they have trouble getting a full 10 people on (the guild run last week had 1 pug i it till spine)

BTW I have the same opinion 10's are easy. But I wipe to the attendance boss.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to JB

said by JB:

just was saying the quality of 25man pugs would be terrifying (think more fail LFR, if that is possible) where as hoping in a 10man pug, maybe you could get lucky a score a guild run.

regardless, we're talking about something that isn't going to happen =P

Well when a guild is short that 1 person and have to pug to fill it then that'd be my shot.

Ya its very easy for a 25 full pug to get horribad but then if one is good then it can be great.

As I said in wrath there was a weekly 25man ICC pug that was over 50% pug and it was a great group, though they didn't down LK in 25man mode.

the 10 that were in the same guild would down 10man LK each week though, just a little issue with pugs there.

My point is good 25man pugs (or at least ones that aren't horribad) are out there (might be hard to find though)

And if I found a 25man raiding guild that raids at a time that's good for me then it'd be awesome.


bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO
reply to Treebark

said by Treebark:

Sorry, me, JB, and a few other older posters are used to 25 man guilds.
That is why we thank 10's are easier.

They were for you in Wrath, because you'd be hitting up reg 10 man raids like ICC which had the first wing tuned to ToC 10 reg gear while you were in ToC 25 H gear which was a higher ilvl than 10 man reg ICC dropped.

Plus when you dropped 15 people your 25 man guild ran in with 10 of its best people so you had no one to carry and could still pick people with classes who had buffs that complimented each other.
--
He who controls the Spice, controls the universe.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

said by bTU:

said by Treebark:

Sorry, me, JB, and a few other older posters are used to 25 man guilds.
That is why we thank 10's are easier.

They were for you in Wrath, because you'd be hitting up reg 10 man raids like ICC which had the first wing tuned to ToC 10 reg gear while you were in ToC 25 H gear which was a higher ilvl than 10 man reg ICC dropped.

Plus when you dropped 15 people your 25 man guild ran in with 10 of its best people so you had no one to carry and could still pick people with classes who had buffs that complimented each other.

In ICC 10 and 25 were very different, basically a half tier apart.

And now if your in a 25man group you're getting drops faster so you could gear up a 10man group really fast with 25's and then have the cream of the crop players fully geared and switch to 10man heroic if you wanted.

But for me it is more fun to be in a 25man raid, just can't find the group because many 25man guilds died


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8

Observation error. You are talking about how easy it is for a 25m raiding group to form up a hard-hitting 10m. In that 25m group, you only need to gear up 10 of them to create your hard-hitting 10m group. It still takes a while to gear up the full 25m crew. But the real kicker in your example is the notion of finding 10 top notch players from a 25m raiding group to stack the deck for a 10m. That has nothing to do with the comparative difficulty of 10m raiding vice 25m raiding. That is like saying a 10m raiding crew can roflstomp heroic dungeons as long as 5 of the raiding group is geared.

10m vice 25m are pretty close as far as the design of the content goes... there are + and - to each... down to a per-boss basis. The biggest challenge to 25m is getting 25 people together and cooperating.
--
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

I meant that for 25man raider groups if they wanted to use 25man just to quickly gear 10 people they could do it fast (that's what the #1 guild on the server I'm on does, They get a new person then carry then through 25H for a few weeks then put him in a 10H group)

Then again if a guild is running 25's weekly and just have a few people absent then they can easily form 2x 10man and it'll make the 10man easy.

From my experience its just easier to find 10 good players, Once I joined a simi-pug that was doing DS (I joined on the 2nd boss because I had joined a fail group earlier in the week) and the f***ing melee wouldn't MOVE the F*** out when it was at 7 stacks) (that group formed because a guild had to much interest in DS that week but not quite 25people.)



bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO
reply to DarkLogix

They died because most people in them only wanted the epeen stroking of having the higher ilvl gear. I know if you went into ICC 25 with 25 people in all ICC 10 gear you were going to be in for a rough night since it was tuned for 25m gear. And that's where it was all at, and is now. Pre nerf raids are tuned for whatever gear lvl Blizz deems appropriate. They designed encounters based on number of people and gear lvl. So in Wrath 25m raids had more health, hit harder and in a few cases had an extra mechanic to deal with because Blizz figured if you were all geared in 25m gear from the previous tier you should have a reasonable chance to down the boss. But, when you go into 10m encounters with half a tier or even a full tier higher gear than Blizz designed a fight for, it's going to seem easier as hell. Plus, in the past 25m guilds did tend to attract the better players who wanted the aforementioned epeen growth for the better gear, so the average skill levels were also higher for them going in.
--
He who controls the Spice, controls the universe.



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
reply to DarkLogix

said by DarkLogix:

I meant that for 25man raider groups if they wanted to use 25man just to quickly gear 10 people they could do it fast (that's what the #1 guild on the server I'm on does, They get a new person then carry then through 25H for a few weeks then put him in a 10H group)

so we agree.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to bTU

BTW if anyone knows a good 25man guild that starts raids around 9:30pm CST (or 10pm CST) let me know