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AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

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reply to Bob4

Re: Deadly Amoebas Found in Tankless Water Heater

I love how this thread has gone in all different directions. A couple of points though...

1) It doesn't matter what your hot water tank is set to if the contamination is present in the water supply. Yes, it won't last as long as it will in a nice hot water tank but how do you think the contamination gets to the hot water tank in the first place?

2) Even setting a hot water tank to 220 is not going to kill all microbes. You would have to boil the water for sufficient duration and then deliver the water via a sterile method - your hot water pipes don't qualify. Even at 220, you probably would still have the occasional living contamination.

3) Setting the tank water heater to a high temperature only deters growth in the tank, if you later "cut it" with cold water from the tap you'll still get the exposure.

4) The case of Neti pot deaths is probably more related to the more direct exposure to the organism via the thin membranes of the sinus, rather than the actual organism being present.


Raphion

join:2000-10-14
Samsara
How could 220 not kill everything? I thought protein denatured at around 160

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
Some organisms can stand extreme conditions, such as heat - in more dramatic circumstances and environments, we call them extremophiles. Its really all about the concentration of any one given organism per volume and our susceptibility to that organism. Even if the water coming out your faucet were truly pure, it would become "contaminated" in milliseconds before getting to your mouth - however, not in any concentration that matters.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
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reply to AVonGauss
The magic number for pasteurization is 144 degrees Fahrenheit. That is the temperature that commercial pasteurizers are set to.

My sister in law insisted on setting the hot water temperature at 150 degrees. First of all it was scalding hot and it made taking a shower a high risk situation. Whenever someone turned on a cold water faucet or flushed a toilet the water became scalding hot.

I understand she finally reduced the temperature when one of her guests got scalded by one of those shower valves that rotate from cold to hot. The guest got mixed up and turned the valve the wrong way toward hot rather then off. When I visited them I got out of the shower first and then turned the water off.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
said by Mr Matt:

The magic number for pasteurization is 144 degrees Fahrenheit. That is the temperature that commercial pasteurizers are set to.

Pasteurization requires a certain amount of heat, for a minimum duration and there is no particular "standard" - it depends on the product and intended use, storage. Even then, bacteria or other "contamination" will still be present, just at acceptably lower concentrations. If this process killed all organic life in the product, theoretically, an airtight container of milk would last forever even at room temperature - which we all know, it doesn't.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
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said by AVonGauss:

If this process killed all organic life in the product, theoretically, an airtight container of milk would last forever even at room temperature - which we all know, it doesn't.

In France, people buy milk which is stored at room temperature for months. It's pasteurized in a hermetically-sealed package. They only refrigerate it after they open it. What annoyed me was running out of cold milk and opening a new, room-temperature container. Our hosts didn't plan ahead and keep an extra container in the refrigerator ready for drinking.


SparkChaser
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join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4
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Where was this? Most of my experience in Europe has been almost daily shopping.

Anyway......

Was it this

In the ultra-pasteurization process, milk or cream is sent through pipes where it's heated almost instantaneously to around 280° and then cooled again almost as quickly. This is as compared to the regular pasteurization process which heats milk to a minimum of 162° for fifteen seconds.

On the one hand, ultra-pasteurization means that enormous quantities of milk can be processed much more quickly than any other pasteurization (or safety regulation) process. The milk is also shelf-stable for several months.
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