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Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
reply to nunya

Re: Anyone have a suggestion for standby whole home generator?

said by nunya:

Electric resistance heat is very inefficient.


Nitpick: Don't you mean to say electric resistance heat is very expensive? I thought it was 100% efficient in that all of the energy consumed goes into heating the house (at least for electric baseboard heating).


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
said by Bob4:

Nitpick: Don't you mean to say electric resistance heat is very expensive? I thought it was 100% efficient in that all of the energy consumed goes into heating the house (at least for electric baseboard heating).

Well if we shall nitpic, then Nunya is quite correct, burning propane to spin a generator to power electric resistance heating is quite inefficient compared to burning propane to heat a home .

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…

AndrewG2

join:2006-01-20
Niagara Falls, ON
Nitpick of nitpick of nitpick....

If the genny is installed in the basement, then all that "inefficiency" goes somewhere, i.e. into heating the surrounding air... unless the flue used is particularly inefficient and it dumps a lot of heat out of that. Anyhoo, I would not think there would be a great deal of difference, if the genny is under teh same roof, and there's air mixing with the upstairs.... if it's in it's own shed, then different story.

Propane... I wouldn't like to rely on propane for anything essential... the problem is, it's a "waste" product from natural gas processing, BUT, only in relatively small quantities... ergo supply is constricted... therefore if it gets "too" popular, price will go nuts. Then also it is coupled to natural gas supply/demand issues through an amplifier as it were... if NG goes expensive or in short supply, propane gets even more so, if NG goes supercheap then barring profiteering propane may go cheaper. The caveat with that, is when NG goes real cheap because they can't sell it, but also it doesn't create demand, i.e. it's a mild spring, gas fired power stations don't come online to run everyone's AC...but everyone is BBQing... then there's not the throughput of NG at the wellheads to make the propane, so it goes spendy... If at all possible, I'd go for LNG...


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
said by AndrewG2:

Nitpick of nitpick of nitpick....

If the genny is installed in the basement, then all that "inefficiency" goes somewhere, i.e. into heating the surrounding air... unless the flue used is particularly inefficient and it dumps a lot of heat out of that. Anyhoo, I would not think there would be a great deal of difference, if the genny is under teh same roof, and there's air mixing with the upstairs.... if it's in it's own shed, then different story.

Nitpick of nitpick of nitpick of yet another nitpik....

Generators installed indoors will have their operating heat and exhaust removed from the room they are installed within to the outside of the building, as such any heat generated only heats the outside air and the room that the generator is installed within...

It's due to some silly little code regulating the way indoor generators are required to be installed.

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to AndrewG2
said by AndrewG2:

Nitpick of nitpick of nitpick....

Propane... I wouldn't like to rely on propane for anything essential... the problem is, it's a "waste" product from natural gas processing, BUT, only in relatively small quantities... ergo supply is constricted... therefore if it gets "too" popular, price will go nuts. Then also it is coupled to natural gas supply/demand issues through an amplifier as it were... if NG goes expensive or in short supply, propane gets even more so, if NG goes supercheap then barring profiteering propane may go cheaper. The caveat with that, is when NG goes real cheap because they can't sell it, but also it doesn't create demand, i.e. it's a mild spring, gas fired power stations don't come online to run everyone's AC...but everyone is BBQing... then there's not the throughput of NG at the wellheads to make the propane, so it goes spendy... If at all possible, I'd go for LNG...

If there's nothing else available Propane has to be used. Simple deduction.


nunya
LXI 483
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join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
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Reviews:
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reply to Bob4
No. Electricity is very inefficient. It's only 100% efficient at the point of use. Generating electricity and getting it where it needs to be is where the losses occur. It usually ends up being about 40-60% efficient. Normally more towards 50% since we get most of our power from coal.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Thank you for the clarification.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to Bob4
said by Bob4:

Nitpick: Don't you mean to say electric resistance heat is very expensive? I thought it was 100% efficient in that all of the energy consumed goes into heating the house (at least for electric baseboard heating).

That is correct, it is inefficient as the ratio between heat energy produced and electric energy used is 100%. As opposed to a heat pumps where it is in the 260-300% range depending on outside temperature.


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
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Springfield, MA
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reply to Bob4
said by Bob4:

said by nunya:

Electric resistance heat is very inefficient.


Nitpick: Don't you mean to say electric resistance heat is very expensive? I thought it was 100% efficient in that all of the energy consumed goes into heating the house (at least for electric baseboard heating).

I can tell you firsthand that while electric baseboard heat is very efficient, it IS very EXPENSIVE to run. One winter (when it was unusually cold for this part of the country, our electric bill for one month (I think January of 2004) was over $350. For me running the A/C (one portable and one window unit) in the summer 24/7 during a heat wave does not even cost as much as running the electric heat in the winter. And this is to heat a 936 sq ft living space.

I do not want to turn this into a political discussion (as this is not the forum) but electric heat is expensive enough to qualify our family for fuel assistance even though we are not classified as "low income" (as we are more middle class). I also want to mention that the electric rates in this part of the country are among the highest in the nation. If we heated the house with a cheaper source of heat (such as natural gas), we could pay the heating bill on our own without assistance.
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
My natural gas bill (heat and hot water only) has been as high as $438; that was in February 2009. Even last winter, it hit $344. But my place is double the size of yours.

AndrewG2

join:2006-01-20
Niagara Falls, ON
reply to 49528867
Ah right, but if you were to rig a heat exchanger to pipe the genny heat back inside, you probably would not need to run it for heat per se, apart from a couple of weeks of the coldest winter.

pandora
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Outland
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1 edit
reply to Bob4
said by Bob4:

said by nunya:

Electric resistance heat is very inefficient.


Nitpick: Don't you mean to say electric resistance heat is very expensive? I thought it was 100% efficient in that all of the energy consumed goes into heating the house (at least for electric baseboard heating).

We will be installing 2 four ton 18 SEER heat pumps with electric resistance axillary heat. Already installed is a Geospring heat pump assisted water heater.

Oil has been removed from my home, after 7 years with a heat pump, it was fine. Last winter we had 1 day when auxiliary heat was required. The newer units are more efficient and have better cold weather performance.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."


treeman
Premium
join:2000-07-15
Mcgaheysville, VA
reply to Bob4
If his living space is 936 and the bill was 350, and yours is twice the size 2x936=1872 and your bill is 438, I sure as hell glad I,m not heating like you guys. Our place is 3450sqft, would have to quit eating