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PX Eliezer70
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Canadian comes home from Guantanamo

OTTAWA --- Omar Khadr, the only Canadian citizen held at the Guantanamo Bay detention center, was returned to Canada early Saturday morning, the Pentagon and the Canadian government announced.

Unlike other Western countries that brought their detainees home from the prison at the naval base, the Conservative government in Canada had vigorously resisted calls and a court order to bring back Mr. Khadr, who was 15 years old in 2002 when he was captured by American forces in Afghanistan.

Vic Toews, the public safety minister, offered no explanation on Saturday for the governments change of mind.

Omar Khadr is a known supporter of the Al Qaeda terrorist network and a convicted terrorist, Mr. Toews said, reading from a statement at a news conference in Winnipeg, Manitoba. I am satisfied the Correctional Service of Canada can administer Omar Khadrs sentence in a manner which recognizes the serious nature of the crimes that he has committed and ensure the safety of Canadians is protected during incarceration.

»www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/world···all&_r=0

COMMENT: I don't know enough about this to offer an opinion, but would be interested in seeing the comments/opinions of those who do know.


Ian
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ON
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said by PX Eliezer70:

COMMENT: I don't know enough about this to offer an opinion, but would be interested in seeing the comments/opinions of those who do know.

I think the topic here in general Canchat, instead of CanPol will limit the latitude of comment.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to PX Eliezer70
I had a teacher once who once tried to initiate social comment on the case. The basics were that the family sent the child off to an Al Qaeda training camp at a young age. He's Canadian born and the opinion of the teacher was that he shouldn't be responsible for the brainwashing done at a young age.

Of course, he didn't seem to agree that if the kid was truly innocent then the parents should be jailed instead.

I agree though, it's probably not a good topic for CanChat.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
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Whenever this topic comes up, the CBC message boards are usually taken over by lynch mobs.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
The problem is that people generally believe one of two things:

- he's an innocent victim, brainwashed as a child

- he's a willing participant in everything, just a product of his upbringing

The real issue is, after everything he's been through, even if he completes the full sentence, what type of citizen will he be. I believe he's spent more of his life out of Canada than in it, however, he's Canadian born. Not as if he's an immigrant whose citizenship can be revoked.


Ian
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ON
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said by A Lurker:

The problem is that people generally believe one of two things:

- he's an innocent victim, brainwashed as a child

- he's a willing participant in everything, just a product of his upbringing

I think most people believe it's likely a combination of the two. And as a practical matter, is a brain-washed "innocent" any less dangerous to Canada and Canadians than one who came by those beliefs naturally as an adult?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong

PX Eliezer70
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reply to Ian
said by Ian:

I think the topic here in general Canchat, instead of CanPol will limit the latitude of comment.

I considered that, but didn't see this as strictly political.

Also, more people participate in Canchat, and there often seems to be more tranquility too.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
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Halifax, NS
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reply to PX Eliezer70
A 15 year old should know right from wrong...

PX Eliezer70
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Right, but didn't his family start his terrorism training at the age of 10 ?

When I read this, I think that maybe his dad should have been in Guantanamo instead....
»www.ctvnews.ca/canada/khadr-case···1.976639


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
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reply to A Lurker
said by A Lurker:

The real issue is, after everything he's been through, even if he completes the full sentence, what type of citizen will he be. I believe he's spent more of his life out of Canada than in it, however, he's Canadian born. Not as if he's an immigrant whose citizenship can be revoked.

That's the problem I have with him. Technically, I can't consider him criminally responsible for whatever he's done since he was taught to be extremely hateful and violent at a very young age by his own family.

But at the same time, I can't see him ever be set free simply because he's never had a normal life, and his treatment by his family and various governments makes any possibility of a "normal" life for him completely impossible.

He would have been better off dying from his wounds in Afghanistan.
--
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»thecanadianpublic.com/live


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
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Halifax, NS
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And he intends to sue Canada several million....
Expand your moderator at work


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
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Halifax, NS
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reply to vue666

Re: Canadian comes home from Guantanamo

Looks like it 's $10 million dollars...

»themuslim.ca/2010/02/07/omar-kha···-ottawa/


elwoodblues
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1 recommendation

reply to PX Eliezer70
Frankly Canadian or not, he decided to go fight for another country, in a war that Canadians participated in.

That in my books is treason, it just happened he killed Americans.

This is no different then the sons of parents born in Serbia went over there to fight , got their legs blown up and came back and claimed health care.

Get out, if that country was good enough to fight for , it should be good enough to live there.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Thane_Bitter
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reply to PX Eliezer70
Dad is dead, but his mother should have been shipped out, she shared the same distorted views as her husband. If there is any chance that the kid will have anything close to a normal life he should keep clear of her and his sister, both are utterly corrupt and hypocritical.

Suffice to say he will be under a microscope for the rest of his life and his file will be indexed amended and updated frequently.


elwoodblues
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said by Thane_Bitter:

Dad is dead, but his mother should have been shipped out, she shared the same distorted views as her husband. If there is any chance that the kid will have anything close to a normal life he should keep clear of her and his sister, both are utterly corrupt and hypocritical.

Suffice to say he will be under a microscope for the rest of his life and his file will be indexed amended and updated frequently.

Sorry the microscopes were put away, Austerity measures, he's free to go.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
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Halifax, NS
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reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Frankly Canadian or not, he decided to go fight for another country, in a war that Canadians participated in.

That in my books is treason, it just happened he killed Americans.

This is no different then the sons of parents born in Serbia went over there to fight , got their legs blown up and came back and claimed health care.

Get out, if that country was good enough to fight for , it should be good enough to live there.

Well articulated...


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
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Owen Sound, ON
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reply to PX Eliezer70
Two words. Child soldier.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
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reply to milnoc
said by milnoc:

I can't see him ever be set free simply because he's never had a normal life, and his treatment by his family and various governments makes any possibility of a "normal" life for him completely impossible.

He would have been better off dying from his wounds in Afghanistan.

Agreed, but I understand he will be eligible for parole in one year. Maybe after he's released scot-free, Maher Arar can guide him through the fine points of seeking a few million taxpayer dollars as "compensation" for his troubles. Welcome to Canadian justice.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
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Wellington N
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

Two words. Child soldier.

Not saying you're wrong, however, there are so many differences here. He grew up basically away from Canada, and it was in fact his family who indoctrinated him. He's not a kid pulled from his family who can be returned to them. As well, his family have very publically supported his participation.

It makes rehabilitation far more complicated.


hm

@videotron.ca
said by A Lurker:

He grew up basically away from Canada

What a 10-year old's parents did, or where they sent him to, is not a childs doing. He is still a Canadian with constitutional rights.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
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reply to PX Eliezer70
If people are shooting at me, I'd shoot back to protect myself.
---after all, what can be so wrong with Afghanistan's equivalent of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law??


Wolfie00
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reply to hm
said by hm :

He is still a Canadian with constitutional rights.

What about the constitutional rights of 34,934,792 other Canadians? Those who might prefer not to have in their midst a convicted terrorist and acknowledged al Qaeda supporter brought up with a potentially incorrigible hatred for the West?


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
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reply to hm
said by hm :

What a 10-year old's parents did, or where they sent him to, is not a childs doing. He is still a Canadian with constitutional rights.

I actually didn't say that he doesn't or shouldn't have constitutional rights. Just that unlike a lot of child soldiers that returning him to Canada (and making him part of the society) would be more complicated. It's not like you're returning him to a familiar country, or supportive family. The family would be more likely to encourage him to return to the fight.

If we accept that nothing is his fault, and that his parents are responsible, why was his mother not arrested when she returned to Toronto? She's publically stated in the past that she supported his training, and hoped that her sons would die martyrs. She returned to Canada with another injured son to take advantage of health care for him. Why wasn't she arrrested for forcing her son into becoming a child soldier.

That's what I was talking about earlier. If he's 100% not responsible, why wasn't she held responsible?

HoboJ

join:2008-03-27
Cornwall, ON
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reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:

What about the constitutional rights of 34,934,792 other Canadians? Those who might prefer not to have in their midst a convicted terrorist and acknowledged al Qaeda supporter brought up with a potentially incorrigible hatred for the West?

What about them? Without setting a ridiculously dangerous and impossible precedent by stripping this man of his citizenship + constitutional rights there's nothing that can be done for it. By the very foundations of our laws he has every right to live among us once he's served his time.


Wolfie00
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Absolutely true, I agree. But we have many examples of Canadian citizens locked up for life under due process which respects their constitutional rights but at the same time respects the principles of justice. The issue here is not his unarguable rights, but a balanced administration of justice taking into account the safety and best interests of law-abiding citizens.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
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reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:

said by hm :

He is still a Canadian with constitutional rights.

What about the constitutional rights of 34,934,792 other Canadians? Those who might prefer not to have in their midst a convicted terrorist and acknowledged al Qaeda supporter brought up with a potentially incorrigible hatred for the West?

Sorry, once he has served his sentence, he has the same rights as every other Canadian citizen.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Shrug

@videotron.ca
reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:

said by hm :

He is still a Canadian with constitutional rights.

What about the constitutional rights of 34,934,792 other Canadians? Those who might prefer not to have in their midst a convicted terrorist and acknowledged al Qaeda supporter brought up with a potentially incorrigible hatred for the West?

Lots of people w/ hatred towards the wests' policies. It's not illegal. If it was a lot of people would be tossed out of Canada.

They have a right to their belief of what's right and wrong in this world.

Even the Ottawa uni's who started the Israeli apartheid thing and condemned the wests involvement are free to do so.

BTW, what constitutional right are you referring to to hate someone who was a child soldier?

In addition, I think you will only find a small fanatical few in that "34,934,792 other Canadians" who want the constitutional right to hate a child soldier.

Your rights weren't trampled on and removed for political reasons. His were.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
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join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
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reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:

Absolutely true, I agree. But we have many examples of Canadian citizens locked up for life under due process which respects their constitutional rights but at the same time respects the principles of justice. The issue here is not his unarguable rights, but a balanced administration of justice taking into account the safety and best interests of law-abiding citizens.

What no one knows is the efect of his time in Gitmo.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
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Halifax, NS
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reply to Shrug
He committed treason and sided with our enemy and fought against our ally when we were at war...

.... I can not think of a more horrendous crime one can commit against one's country...

What is the punishment for treason in Canada?