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SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2

[Help] White balance issue

I took a photo of my granddaughter last night. She was wearing a blue green top (more green than blue) and sitting in the grass with fallen leaves around her. The light just so so, so it is a snapshot.

The problem, when I corrected white balance for her skin tone her top then looks more blue. What would you do in this situation?


orion940
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join:2001-12-23
Windsor, CT
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Sue,

Upload the raw pic, the and tell us what kind of camera you have. There may be setting in the camera that can be adjusted, and there are helpful eyes here.

O.
--
Windsor, Home of the 2012 Yard Vermin Olympics


jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
USA
kudos:24

1 recommendation

reply to SueS
Wish I had a clue, Sue. Without seeing the image and perhaps playing with it myself, I have no idea what I would do.


richdelb
Go Hawks Go
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Algonquin, IL

2 recommendations

reply to SueS
I have saved color balance on indoor shots by returning to the shot location (if possible) and shooting a gray card. I can then do my white balance using DPP off of that gray card. (or lightroom or whatever)

That's assuming you shoot in raw.

Just a suggestion

Rich


tmpchaos
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join:2000-04-28
Hoboken, NJ
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3 recommendations

reply to SueS
If it's only the fabric of the top that's off in color, it's quite possible that the sensor of the camera is seeing colors differently from the human eye. From Kodak (remember them?), and relating to film, but the same principles apply:

Perhaps most troublesome is the color-reproduction problem sometimes called “anomalous reflectance.” It is caused by high reflectance at the far-red and near infrared end of the spectrum, where the eye has little or no sensitivity. Examples of problem subjects from nature are blue morning glories, gentians, and ageratum flowers, which often reproduce poorly because most color films are much more sensitive than the human eye to the far red.
Some organic dyes have high reflectance in the far red. These dyes are often popular with fabric manufacturers because they are relatively inexpensive and work well with synthetic materials. While the high reflectance in the far red and infrared is found in all colors of these dyes, the effect is most prevalent in shades of green and blue.The far-red reflectance neutralizes the green or blue appearance, so the fabrics may reproduce as neutrals or warm colors.

The entire pamphlet may be found in a pdf here: Why a Color May Not Reproduce Correctly
--
***ATMFAQ***DIFAQ***Kitchen Sink***


SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
reply to SueS
My granddaughter does not like to have her photo taken. She tries too hard to pose and you know how that goes. Anyway we were out in the yard last night, and I was trying to get her to relax. I want to do a real shoot in a few days. I can use a grey card and set the white balance, but that does not fix the photos I shot last night. I have two different white balances, (camera was set on auto white balance) and I would like photo 1 to match photo 2 skin tones without making her top blue or some other weird color. I have the raw files, but I am not going to post them.


29886823
Premium
join:2005-03-29
kudos:3

2 recommendations


Canon EOS 7D
85mm 1/160th +0.3ev F3.5 ISO1600


1st image corrected
SueS,
I ran your first image through a piece of software that tries to make sure that the skin tone is 'acceptable' by looking for the closest match from a database of tones, and making corrections. After that, I ran the image through a 'warming filter' and the result is posted here.


bfreas
Premium
join:2001-06-16
Franklin, KY
reply to SueS
Are you using Gimp?


tmpchaos
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Hoboken, NJ
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reply to SueS
I just went +18 on temperature in camera raw to get this:


Canon EOS 7D
85mm 1/160th F3.5 ISO1600



SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to bfreas
Yes I use GIMP and I haven't found a good way to use it for white balance.

I just discovered a while ago that I could pull up both raw files to compare in DPP, and I was able to get very close.

Sometimes I just shoot jpeg snapshots (because I don't want to work all the files) and skin tones can be a problem. Most of the time outside they are ok. Once the sun gets quite low my camera tends to shoot more blue.


SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
reply to tmpchaos
That is pretty good.

Tell me more about camera raw. Is it something like lightroom?


EGeezer
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Midwest
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Reviews:
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1 edit
reply to SueS

Canon EOS 7D
85mm 1/160th +0.3ev F3.5 ISO1600

 

Canon EOS 7D
85mm 1/160th +0.3ev F3.5 ISO1600


added curve adjustment
 
I used Raw Therapee's temperature feature to adjust the lighting then added a bit of color saturation. Then I used the deconvolution sharpening to give just a tad more detail. I'm sure you had it in your original image, but maybe it lost a little bit in the resizing.

Yep, I know about people trying too hard to "pose" for a photo.

Wish I had the skill to loosen them up!

Edit - nice subject and I like the DoF

I added a mild S-curve tone adjustment in the bottom image. It may be a bit too "hard", but it pops a bit more.


tmpchaos
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reply to SueS
It's just the raw file handling plugin/interface from Adobe. It does allow you to do quite a bit, though. Pretty sure Lightroom has it.
--
***ATMFAQ***DIFAQ***Kitchen Sink***


SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
reply to EGeezer
Thanks. I never do final sharpening till I am ready for printing or maybe e-mail.



No_Strings
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2008-13
join:2001-11-22
The OC
kudos:6

1 recommendation

FWIW, UFRaw is available as a plugin to the GIMP for Windows. »ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html

It gives you controls for WB including presets such as cloudy, flash, florescent, incandescent as well as sliders for temperature and green level. Won't help you with a JPG, but will make while balance easy from RAW.






SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
Thanks,I might go ahead and download it, but I don't think I can export a raw to GIMP. I think I have to convert to tiff or jpeg, anyone know for sure?


No_Strings
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join:2001-11-22
The OC
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1 recommendation

UFraw does the conversion for you.

I do it all the time.


SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
Thank you I am going to try this.


SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
reply to No_Strings
Doesn't list windows 7.


No_Strings
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join:2001-11-22
The OC
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1 recommendation

Since it works for Vista, it should work for Win7. I haven't tried it, though.


Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
reply to SueS
said by SueS:

I took a photo of my granddaughter last night. She was wearing a blue green top (more green than blue) and sitting in the grass with fallen leaves around her. The light just so so, so it is a snapshot.

The problem, when I corrected white balance for her skin tone her top then looks more blue. What would you do in this situation?

Does the color exact hue of the clothing REALLY matter that much (as long as not psychedelic) if you got the skin tones right???
--



SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
What would you do?


jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
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reply to SueS
You've had better answers than I could have given, so........ I got a recommendation some time ago from someone well respected from here, »www.mediachance.com/digicam/cleanskin.htm I don't know if it would be of any value to you, but you could see for yourself.


jjoshua
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Scotch Plains, NJ
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reply to SueS
I hope that you're shooting raw with your 7d. It makes these types of corrections so much easier to do.

Anyway, here's what I was able to do with Lightroom. I used her eye to get a white balance.


Canon EOS 7D
85mm 1/160th F3.5 ISO1600



SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
I do have the raw files for these, and I discovered yesterday that I could have two files opened together to match skin tones. These are only snapshots, I usually only shoot raw when I think they are important.


Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
reply to SueS
said by SueS:

What would you do?

If JPG pretty much all you can do is adjust for skin tone and lets the other colors fall where they may.

However as others have posted, if you have raw files a lot more specific adjustments can be made.
--



tmpchaos
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said by Hayward:

said by SueS:

What would you do?

If JPG pretty much all you can do is adjust for skin tone and lets the other colors fall where they may.

However as others have posted, if you have raw files a lot more specific adjustments can be made.

Actually, that's totally false. Camera Raw will handle jpg as well as raw files.
--
***ATMFAQ***DIFAQ***Kitchen Sink***


EGeezer
zichrona livracha
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join:2002-08-04
Midwest
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Reviews:
·Callcentric

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reply to SueS
It looks like it supports several cameras -

»ufraw.sourceforge.net/Cameras.html

As for saving EXIF data,

said by »ufraw.sourceforge.net/ :

Embed EXIF data - UFRaw can save the EXIF data to JPEG output for a few supported formats. These formats include Canon (CRW, CR2), Nikon (NEF), Pentax (PEF), Samsung (PEF), Sony (SR2, ARW), Fuji (RAF) and Adobe's DNG. For information on how to save EXIF data for other formats you should use ExifTool by Phil Harvey

I've used it on my Pentax PEF files but prefer Raw Therapee for its functionality.


greyblue

@tmodns.net
reply to SueS
another option not yet mentioned - after u get the skin tones the way u want (the original looks like overcast bluish skylight) you can just select the blouse alone and adjust its color separately.

having a white or and grey card in at least one of the images will let you correct afterwards even if u dont white balance to it while shoting, assuming the light stays the same while shooting.


SueS
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO
kudos:2
Thanks