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Mike86

join:2004-09-28
Darien, IL

U-Verse IP-DSL speed?

I have AT&T for phone & DSL. I had a phone conversation with an AT&T rep about changing to U-Verse IP-DSL. He said I cannot get U-Verse for TV because the bandwidth is not high enough but can get it for phone & Internet, however my Internet speed would not be any higher than the 3Mbps that I already have. The advantage is that I'd be saving some money, at least for 12 months.

He said there is fiber going to the utility box down the block, but the bandwidth is not high enough for TV or faster Internet. Why would there be low bandwidth fiber installed if it has to be replaced later by something else? Does that make sense? Or is it possible there really is no fiber in the first place & the rep is misinformed?

Reading some postings is appears some people were able to get faster Internet with IP-DSL & some were not. If it’s still all copper then how could they get a faster speed?


techguyga
Premium
join:2003-12-31
Buford, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
It's possible that fiber is going to the node (FTTN). But, if either your local loop (the copper that comes from the node) is too far away for higher speeds, or there are no VRAD cards are available to place your pair on, you may not be able to get the higher speed.

Have you checked the site »www.att.com/u-verse/availability/ to see what is actually available to you?


techguyga
Premium
join:2003-12-31
Buford, GA
reply to Mike86
Just FYI, I am in a fairly rural area and UVRealtime shows me about 1900 feet from the VRAD. I am subscribed to TV and have 18Mb internet, and 24Mb internet is available to me.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to Mike86
Sounds like there's a lot of confusion going on.

If you can get U-Verse IP-DSL, then AFAIK, you do not have FTTC setup like the CSR described. Everything is the same as in ADSL, just the equipment at the CO or remote CO is different. Everything is still copper back to where your line is terminated.

What the rep was describing is actual U-Verse, where the fiber is terminated at a utility box and VDSL (not ADSL2+, like U-Verse IP-DSL) is used for the last mile connection. There's no "low bandwidth" fiber.

ADSL2+ (U-Verse IP-DSL) supports 3, 6, 12, and 18 Mbps download speeds, depending on line quality and distance to the CO. This is achieved through better algorithms/compression, more efficient use of the frequency spectrum, etc. Not because of fiber anywhere. It's still distance-limited, so if you had a slow connection on ADSL, you'll likely still have a slow connection on ADSL2+.

Personal opinion note: AT&T naming IP-DSLAM "U-Verse" was the worst decision they've made since launching caps. Extremely confusing and somewhat misleading to the end-user.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Mike86
said by Mike86:

He said there is fiber going to the utility box down the block, but the bandwidth is not high enough for TV or faster Internet. Why would there be low bandwidth fiber installed if it has to be replaced later by something else? Does that make sense?

What I know, from my last neighborhood:

• There is a fiber-fed box (VRAD) about 4,000 feet from the premises.
• The premises is not fed from the VRAD, but from the CO; a 9,156 foot run of copper.

IPDSLAM service is now offered there; at the same speed as the old ADSL service. No higher.

I would say that a phone sales rep could not possibly know the plant topology in most cases, but is paid to promote the most optimistic service levels.

Reading some postings is appears some people were able to get faster Internet with IP-DSL & some were not. If it’s still all copper then how could they get a faster speed?

Back at the old premises, with 9,156 feet of copper to the CO, AT&T offered tiered services. The best sync rate estimated from data out of the Siemens SpeedStream 4100 modem was 5400kb/s; too low for the 6.0M service (requires 6016kb/s sync). When I replaced "at&t Yahoo! HSI Pro" with Sonic.net, LLC "Fusion", I received a ZTE 831II ADSL2+ modem. It syncs at ~5900kb/s; still too low for the AT&T "Elite" tier. But "Fusion" isn't "U-verse HSI", and Sonic.net service is not tiered; so I got ~4.8M service there.

At my new premises, I ordered Sonic.net "Fusion" from the start. The service was up before the new modem arrived, so I connected the old SBC-issue SS4100. Sync was 8192kb/s, the maximum for ADSL. The 3,300 foot loop here is good for the old, "at&t Yahoo! HSI Elite" (6M/768k) ADSL service. But "Fusion" is ADSL2+ service, and the new Sonic.net-issue Pace 4111N-030 RG syncs at 18,068kb/s. Measured down speed is ~15M. If I had opted for the more expensive (than Sonic.net "Fusion") AT&T U-verse HSI package, they likely would only have sold me the 12M tier because my sync rate is probably a tad shy of required for the 18M tier.

DSL (all flavors) speed is constrained by distance from the DSLAM. At ~7,000 feet all flavors converge toward 6M. At ~10,000 feet, all flavors approach 3M as the max. And beyond that, all drop off equally. But at 500 feet, ADSL is good for 8M, ADSL2+ is good for 24M, and VDSL is good for 100M.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Mcmurdy1980

join:2012-10-22
Newhall, CA
reply to Mike86
Ipdslam can be wired for a rt or remote terminal ( vrad) or its wired directly to the central office. The bandwidth limitation is not the fiber, but the quality of your cable and the distance to your house.

Mike86

join:2004-09-28
Darien, IL
Checking the previously mentioned site www.att.com/u-verse/availability/, it states I dont qualify for U-Verse TV but do qualify for U-Verse Internet & U-Verse Voice.

About a year ago the DSL kept dropping to a low speed & AT&T had to switch some wires. First they did it from the small green utility box in back of my neighbors house to the big green utility box at the end of the block. But there was still a problem so they swapped wires going from the big green box down to the phone company. Sorry that I dont know the technical names for these connections.

The tech showed me some stats on his laptop & Im the only one on my block that can get 3Mbps. My neighbor can only get something like 1.4Mbps and someone across the street was about 500Kbps. I dont know about houses in back of me but some of them should be connected to the same small utility box that I am.

The tech said that once fiber is run to the big utility box at the end of the block then I will be able to get faster Internet speed. But he had no idea when that might be.

I dont recall exactly but Im something like 15,000 feet from the phone company. Years ago I could only get 368Kbps, then it went up to 1.5Mbps and later to the current 3Mbps.

The rep I spoke with the other day said that in about a year AT&T will stop supporting regular DSL & Ill have to go to IP-DSL. From what I understood is that if the IP-DSL goes down then my phone service would also go down. Is that correct? Im just used to having a good old reliable land line & hate to give it up.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
Just guessing:

• Small green "utility box" = SAI (Serving Area Interface).
• Big green "utility box" = RT (Remote Terminal).

Perhaps the RT is currently fed by T1 circuits, which would explain lack of bandwidth in the area. Yes, fibering up the RT will allow higher speeds.

If you can upload pictures of the boxes, someone is sure to be able to ID them.

The history of speed upgrades probably indicates that the RT was deployed about the time you went from 384kb/s (the common speed package for long loops) to 1.5Mb/s. The RT would be a powered box with a DSLAM inside.

AT&T is decommissioning ADSL gear everywhere, and replacing it with either ADSL2+ or VDSL gear. That is the basis for IPDSLAM service. However, service will still be carried to the premises over copper pair. I would think that a customer could keep dial tone on the copper, and not lose the voice if the DSL should go down.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum