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jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

2 recommendations

Care Not I Do

They could be giving away Free Lap Dances With Happy Ending for the life of the contract and I still wouldn't bite.

My good old reliable plastic credit cards work great and fit in my (real) wallet.

Jim



Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

1 recommendation

^this.



richdelb
Go Hawks Go
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Algonquin, IL

Same here. I'll keep my plastic.



AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to jseymour

said by jseymour:

They could be giving away Free Lap Dances With Happy Ending for the life of the contract and I still wouldn't bite.

My good old reliable plastic credit cards work great and fit in my (real) wallet.

Jim

my grandfather said something similar about plastic debit cards
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--Standard disclaimers apply.--


jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

said by AVD:

my grandfather said something similar about plastic debit cards

Ah hah hah hah ah hah

If debit cards would've cost to the tune of about $1200/year, then you'd have a point.

Jim


Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to jseymour

Definitely this. Anyone who uses a debit card to pay for purchases is an idiot since there are no Government protections for debit card fraud.

If someone makes unauthorized purchases on your credit card, the most you are liable for is $50. If someone clones your debit card, they can drain your entire bank account dry and unless you catch it quickly your SOL.

»www.usa.gov/topics/money/banking···it.shtml

Adding this ability to a phone, which is already has NFC security problems and you might as well just throw your money away.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1
reply to jseymour

that's an deceptive comparison at best, the majority of the population now already owns smartphones, this is just a new application for the smartphone that most already own. I don't know everything about ISIS, but google wallet costs the user nothing.

This is just a the next logical step in our movement away from paper currency. 40 years ago people would have been saying the same thing about relying primarily on a credit or debit card.
These days if I have cash it's usually by accident, or I'm going to one of the last few vestiges that doesn't take credit card.
Flee Markets, Garage sales etc.

It may take another 40 years for this to become as common as the debit card is today, but it will probably be much faster than that.

Luddites need not apply, no one will force you. You can still use cash for everything



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1
reply to Morac

Not true at all, at least not in practice.
I made the mistake of giving a debit card to a cab driver and he stole my debit card information, he ran up $1000 in ski shop purchases. When I saw it happening, I contacted the bank and put in a fraudulent activity report and the money was returned to my account the next day.

Worked exactly the same as if my credit card was stolen. You may have to check with your individual bank but TD Bank covers the fraudulent activity.

Most banks give out Visa or Mastercard check cards, which operate like a credit card.



Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

If you catch it quickly enough it can be stopped yes, but the law only gives you a 2 day window. If you hadn't caught it, you would have been out of the money.

From the link I posted:
1. If you report the card stolen, you owe nothing on future charges.
2. If you don't and someone makes a debit (not credit) charge.

a) If you catch it within 2 days, you owe at most $50 just like a credit card.
b) If you catch it after 2 days, but within 60 days you owe at most $500
c) After that you are SOL. You are up to the mercy of the bank (some are more lenient than others).
I believe you are correct in that if the debit card is used as a credit card then you are protected, but since it is also a debit card, all someone needs is the pin and those protections vanish.

Again, it's much safer to use a credit card as they are a lot safer.

»lifehacker.com/5734973/how-to-av···bit-card
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1

said by Morac:

If you catch it quickly enough it can be stopped yes, but the law only gives you a 2 day window. If you hadn't caught it, you would have been out of the money.

From the link I posted:
1. If you report the card stolen, you owe nothing on future charges.
2. If you don't and someone makes a debit (not credit) charge.
a) If you catch it within 2 days, you owe at most $50 just like a credit card.
b) If you catch it after 2 days, but within 60 days you owe at most $500
c) After that you are SOL. You are up to the mercy of the bank (some are more lenient than others).

I believe you are correct in that if the debit card is used as a credit card then you are protected, but since it is also a debit card, all someone needs is the pin and those protections vanish.

Again, it's much safer to use a credit card as they are a lot safer.

»lifehacker.com/5734973/how-to-av···bit-card

most banks give you better protection than the law requires. YMMV
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX
reply to MovieLover76

Personally, I agree!

However, I don't feel like it should be tied to my smartphone. To protect it, you (should) need passwords. You should encrypt your phone's info (very easy on Android)) etc, so that it requires a password upon reboot.

The problem with all of this? Inconvenience for the end user. I personally don't care, but a lot of people sure are lazy these days..



jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

1 recommendation

reply to MovieLover76

said by MovieLover76:

that's an deceptive comparison at best, the majority of the population now already owns smartphones,

No, it's not and no, they don't.

If it costs me little-to-nothing to carry plastic, but I have to have a "smart"phone with data plan that costs me $1200/year in fees to use ISIS, then ISIS costs $1200/year more than the plain old plastic credit cards. Secondly: As of the beginning of the year, the latest for which I could find numbers, 46-49% of the U.S. adult population owned "smart"phones.

I know many people w/o "smart"phones. Even a few that have no wireless phones at all.

said by MovieLover76:

Luddites need not apply, no one will force you. You can still use cash for everything

Has nothing to do with being a Luddite. Being a tech guy, I'm anything but a Luddite. It's all about the cost of "smart"phones, which I believe to be ludicrous--at least for anything shy of business use.

One of my closest geek buddies, whose family wireless bill is atrocious (somewhere north of $450/mo., IIRC), ruefully admitted to me, recently, "Yeah, there's really no justification for it, outside of mine, for my business."

Jim

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to Morac

If you can't use it as a debit card with the pin then it is ran as a credit card and you have credit card protection. It is that plain and simple for every debit/credit card.

1 - Some banks provide more/less coverage but there are regulations that cover the basics.
2 - Depending on person they may or may not be able to get any charges waived.
3 - Timing is everything. If you have money coming out of your bank account in large sums and you dont notice it pretty quick, then you probably have enough cash and wont mind any fees to begin with. This person would also qualify for #2 above as they are probably a responsible and good customer so fees dont matter either way. It is pay check to pay check people that will get hit with fees and will probably know pretty dang quick that they are out of money.



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to jseymour

a simple google search results in many articles that state that in the US, the smartphone penetration rates exceeded 50% in August of this year
»www.gizmag.com/us-smartphone-pen···t/23768/

It is a deceptive comparison, because no one expects that someone is going to go out and buy a smartphone just to use the ISIS payment system, that would be insane.
But yet that is exactly what you are proposing in order to make your comparison.

Taking something you already own and adding a feature to it which costs no addition money is not a cost for that feature.
Your smartphones fees cover, voice text and data. At best if the ISIS system sends a few kilobytes of data during each transaction, you could add that extremely tiny portion of your data allotment to the price of using ISIS, but in reality it will be negligible.

People may choose to use it if they have a smartphone. It's not like credit and debit cards or cash are going away. They aren't marketing ISIS to non-smartphone users.

Finally, smartphones are a luxury item, no not everyone needs one, but I find mine extremely useful in my daily life and it makes my life easier. If something is worth the price is completely subjective, no one can decide for everyone else what is a justified expenditure and what is not.

It is true that you can pay extremely high rates for a family of smartphone users, but that is partially because people don't bother to look into their options, their are plenty of cheaper options than AT&T or Verizon. I myself pay only $45 for Straight Talk Smartphone service and for $45 a month the value I get out of my smartphone seems completely justified to me. Even if I paid $100 a month for my smartphone, if the price was worth it would still be a subjective opinion.

Also, I didn't tell those families that their kids need to have smartphones, in my mind giving your kid a smartphone and paying $80-90 a month for it is insane, I don't think kids need a smartphone, but if you've decided on getting them a smartphone, give them a cheaper prepaid option, like virgin mobile on $35 a month with 300 mins (most kids don't talk on phones anymore)



techguyga
Premium
join:2003-12-31
Cumming, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to Skippy25

As long as the transaction is processed through the Visa or MasterCard systems (AKA, don't use a PIN for the transaction), the transaction is protected by Visa or MasterCard, just like any other "real" credit card. If you use your PIN during the transaction, is doesn't go through the CC system and it's up to what the government/bank covers.



techguyga
Premium
join:2003-12-31
Cumming, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to jseymour

I wish the banks would pull their heads out of their asses and implement chip-and-PIN cards. The US is the last civilized country to not use this technology in it's cards. I travel internationally for work and find it increasingly difficult to use the "good old reliable plastic credit card", because the rest of the world is so far ahead of the US. Business should focus more on credit card security than on tech such as this, that probably won't even be available in a majority of stores.
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MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1
reply to techguyga

And these payment system process the transactions as credit card transactions so your protected, I don't think I ever use my debit card as a debit card with the pin number, unless I go to the ATM.

So the protection is just as good as credit cards in the vast majority of cases. A thief is going to try to use it as a credit card instead of trying to guess my pin, and I've never told anyone my pin number.


big_e

join:2011-03-05
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Frontier Communi..
reply to techguyga

Pin and Chip has been cracked. It's almost entirely due to shoddy implementation of the protocol by the POS terminals. It used to be that the technology was considered so reliable that the credit card companies didn't have to refund your money in fraudulent use cases because it was your fault that you revealed your pin.



88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to jseymour

said by jseymour:

If it costs me little-to-nothing to carry plastic, but I have to have a "smart"phone with data plan that costs me $1200/year in fees to use ISIS, then ISIS costs $1200/year more than the plain old plastic credit cards.

Did you have your smartphone already and using it for other things already? If yes. Then it's free. I have credit cards each one charges a BS yearly fee.

Secondly: As of the beginning of the year, the latest for which I could find numbers, 46-49% of the U.S. adult population owned "smart"phones.



Notice the change in just 9 months. What will it be in 5 years?

I know many people w/o "smart"phones. Even a few that have no wireless phones at all.

We have some Amish here that have horse and buggies and no electricity.

Has nothing to do with being a Luddite. Being a tech guy, I'm anything but a Luddite. It's all about the cost of "smart"phones, which I believe to be ludicrous--at least for anything shy of business use.

As was stated if you don't want to use smartphone no one is forcing you to. For those that already have them I'm not sure what your beef is? There is no additional cost of this for those with smarthphones.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to techguyga

Didnt I just say that?



tmh

@myvzw.com
reply to jseymour

said by jseymour:

They could be giving away Free Lap Dances With Happy Ending for the life of the contract and I still wouldn't bite.

I would. I guess we differ on that.

But I wouldn't want her to bite on the happy ending either.


jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI
reply to 88615298

said by 88615298:

Did you have your smartphone already and using it for other things already? If yes. Then it's free.

No, I do not, so, therefor, no, it would not be.

said by 88615298:

Notice the change in just 9 months. What will it be in 5 years?

If some of the predictions I've been reading lately are any guide: Not a whole lot different. They could be wrong, market analysts sometimes are, but it is believed by many that just about everybody that is inclined to go "smart"phone now has one--that the market is essentially saturated. Those analysts expect moderate growth in the "smart"phone market though next year, and then for it to essentially go flat.

We'll see.

said by 88615298:

I know many people w/o "smart"phones. Even a few that have no wireless phones at all.

We have some Amish here that have horse and buggies and no electricity.

I bet they're happier than most "smart"phone users you know

Jim