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dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Black Box

Re: Gasoline Prices Below 99 Cents/Litre By Christmas

i've had numerous manuals over the years (including several motorcycles)...it's lost its "coolness".


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1

1 edit
said by dirtyjeffer:

i've had numerous manuals over the years (including several motorcycles)...it's lost its "coolness".

Hoss, I wasn't aware you owned motorcycles in the past... Probably an Harley, Norton or BSA I'm betting...


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
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join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to dirtyjeffer
Sticks are not only not cool, they're not as fast as an automatic and its clutch-less iterations, and use more fuel compared to a 7-9 speed auto or a CVT.

With over 95% penetration now, automatics will soon be close to 100% on consumer vehicles, thanks to computerization and more stringent fuel economy standards.

Who's developing an 8 speed manual (clutch) for a car? Case closed.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
When the bill comes in from repairing those trannies, you'll weep. Manuals? Not so much.
--
I'm not anti-social, I just don't like stupid people.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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Somewhere in
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Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

Sticks are not only not cool, they're not as fast as an automatic and its clutch-less iterations, and use more fuel compared to a 7-9 speed auto or a CVT.

Not my fault people are clueless and can't drive a stick, I learned on both an automatic and a stick. The majority of the cars I've owned have had sticks

Who's developing an 8 speed manual (clutch) for a car? Case closed.

BMW has a 7 speed and so does Porsche. Close enough.

CVT's are a joke, I can't wait for the day those belts wear out and.or break (inevitable) and the powertrain is out of warranty.

$$$$$$$$$

--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to Juggernaut
said by Juggernaut:

When the bill comes in from repairing those trannies, you'll weep. Manuals? Not so much.

Its a chicken and egg scenario you paint though....how do you learn to drive a stick?...you can't...because nobody has one...its not that I don't want to...its that I can't learn and I don't want to burn out clutches and not drive and get frustrated...

So explain to me how I solve this

GBerry

join:2011-06-12
Guelph, ON
reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

Sticks are not only not cool, they're not as fast as an automatic and its clutch-less iterations, and use more fuel compared to a 7-9 speed auto or a CVT.

With over 95% penetration now, automatics will soon be close to 100% on consumer vehicles, thanks to computerization and more stringent fuel economy standards.

Who's developing an 8 speed manual (clutch) for a car? Case closed.

Lewis Hamilton is buying/bought a Zonda with a manual not the DSG. Know why? He prefers them because they are more fun. I wouldn't blame him either. I may not be able to handle that car but the videos I've seen of the DSG make it look rather rough in 1st.

Personally, I'd rather drive a 150hp manual than a 300hp automatic. Might not be as fast but it is much more enjoyable to drive.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

Sticks are not only not cool, they're not as fast as an automatic and its clutch-less iterations, and use more fuel compared to a 7-9 speed auto or a CVT.

You're kinda correct. The fastest cars use a combination of both actually that take the clutch out of the equation but allow the driver to control shift points.

So in my Pro Street I use an automatic with a Cheetah valve body that has a reverse pattern no first gear brake and fully manual.

As I drive the car on the street now for the last couple decades there is no more trans brake and the stall is more reasonable for fuel mileage.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

Sticks are not only not cool, they're not as fast as an automatic and its clutch-less iterations, and use more fuel compared to a 7-9 speed auto or a CVT.

With over 95% penetration now, automatics will soon be close to 100% on consumer vehicles, thanks to computerization and more stringent fuel economy standards.

Who's developing an 8 speed manual (clutch) for a car? Case closed.

BMN and Porsche are looking into 7 and 8 speed manual trannies...

»www.e90post.com/forums/showthrea···t=701345

»www.dailytech.com/BMW+Patent+Sho···4881.htm


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by digitalfutur:

Sticks are not only not cool, they're not as fast as an automatic and its clutch-less iterations, and use more fuel compared to a 7-9 speed auto or a CVT.

You're kinda correct. The fastest cars use a combination of both actually that take the clutch out of the equation but allow the driver to control shift points.

So in my Pro Street I use an automatic with a Cheetah valve body that has a reverse pattern no first gear brake and fully manual.

As I drive the car on the street now for the last couple decades there is no more trans brake and the stall is more reasonable for fuel mileage.

In drag racing automatics are preferred as they are more consistent allowing the driver to keep as close as possible to his "index" without going over it (which would result in being a disallowed run)....

Actually the two speed GM Powerglide is still one of the more preferred trannys in drag racing....


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by vue666:

In drag racing automatics are preferred as they are more consistent allowing the driver to keep as close as possible to his "index" without going over it (which would result in being a disallowed run)....

I thought they used sequential transmissions rather than proper automatics?


Kardinal
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2 recommendations

reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

Sticks are not only not cool, they're not as fast as an automatic and its clutch-less iterations, and use more fuel compared to a 7-9 speed auto or a CVT.

Why are they "not cool"? Because hip-hop wannabes can't be reclined halfway to the back seat, leaning over onto the console and still shift gears? As for "fast", I don't do track day driving on my daily commute, so an extra two hundred milliseconds per shift aren't really a bother to me; I prefer to actually be involved in driving a car, rather than have it do the work for me. Furthermore, the fast shifting transmissions are usually dual clutch automated manuals, not automatics in the traditional sense.

I think if all cars came with a manual, we'd have fewer distracted drivers who were talking/texting/emailing because they would have to be more involved with the act of piloting several thousand kilos of steel/rubber/aluminum/leather rather than that being second or third on their operation priority list. Besides, any man who can't shift a manual without using the clutch can check their "package" at the door.
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


Styvas
Go Canucks Go
Premium
join:2004-09-15
Hamilton, ON
An interesting thing I realized recently is that manual transmissions really mess up insurance quotes. My wife simply can't drive a stick shift. She doesn't know how. She'd never get it out of the driveway. Therefore, I'm the primary driver on that car. However, she generally prefers that I drive, plus with my long commute I spend more time in the other car than her on the basis of kilometers alone (even if she drove it 100% of the rest of the time).

But insurance can't compute the idea that I'm primary driver on both cars they just don't allow it). Since she has only been licensed for a few years, her rating is lower than mine and our insurance rates are higher because she has to be noted as primary driver on the automatic transmission vehicle. It's really quite silly.
--
"Moving your Tylenol to the low shelf in your medicine cabinet is not the way to prevent children from falling off a stool when reaching for the top shelf." (said by Savant, May 2008)


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by vue666:

In drag racing automatics are preferred as they are more consistent allowing the driver to keep as close as possible to his "index" without going over it (which would result in being a disallowed run)....

I thought they used sequential transmissions rather than proper automatics?

I think it depends on the class... It's been quite a while since I really followed the NHRA or IHRA. Perhaps Peterboro can pipe in...

I know some classes use something like the Lenco manual trans which has a shift lever for each gear. I know Pro Stock class used Lenco...

While other classes seem to prefer automatics. A Top Fuel rail does the 1/4 mile in 4 seconds (approx) so not a lot of time to shift...

quote:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerglide#Racing

Racing

Although it is a very old design, the Power Glide still has a strong following in drag racing due to its strength and simplicity.[5] Power Glides are also popular in mud racing and monster truck racing. In the first few years after introduction, they became known as the "Slip-N-Slide Power Glide", due to the fluid coupling, (as opposed to the mechanical coupling of a clutch-driven gearbox), and the "Positive-Pop transmission" This last is due to the characteristic "bump" or "pop" which occurs as the transmission is put into gear from neutral.
Currently Robert Campisi from Australia holds the World Record for the fastest run using a Power Glide transmission, clocking 5.95s at 260 mph in his Twin Turbo Ford Mustang in September 2011.[6]

Again it's been quite a while since I followed drag racing....

Summit Racing has a lot of Powerglides for sale...

»www.summitracing.com/search/depa···werglide

»www.atiracing.com/products/trans···ndex.htm

»www.lencoracing.com/

Again Peterboro can correct me...


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

said by digitalfutur:

Sticks are not only not cool, they're not as fast as an automatic and its clutch-less iterations, and use more fuel compared to a 7-9 speed auto or a CVT.

Why are they "not cool"? Because hip-hop wannabes can't be reclined halfway to the back seat, leaning over onto the console and still shift gears? As for "fast", I don't do track day driving on my daily commute, so an extra two hundred milliseconds per shift aren't really a bother to me; I prefer to actually be involved in driving a car, rather than have it do the work for me. Furthermore, the fast shifting transmissions are usually dual clutch automated manuals, not automatics in the traditional sense.

I think if all cars came with a manual, we'd have fewer distracted drivers who were talking/texting/emailing because they would have to be more involved with the act of piloting several thousand kilos of steel/rubber/aluminum/leather rather than that being second or third on their operation priority list. Besides, any man who can't shift a manual without using the clutch can check their "package" at the door.

I agree and a great reply Kardinal...


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Ditto here, well said .

Robrr

join:2008-04-19
Guelph, ON
reply to Styvas
said by Styvas:

But insurance can't compute the idea that I'm primary driver on both cars they just don't allow it). Since she has only been licensed for a few years, her rating is lower than mine and our insurance rates are higher because she has to be noted as primary driver on the automatic transmission vehicle. It's really quite silly.

Insurance rules required that one vehicle be assigned to each driver (which is sometimes very stupid if you ask me).

This is why they won't allow it.

If your wife did not have a license, then you could be primary on both.


Styvas
Go Canucks Go
Premium
join:2004-09-15
Hamilton, ON
It's definitely stupid in this case. But I did understand that they have to assign one to each.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

[
I think if all cars came with a manual, we'd have fewer distracted drivers who were talking/texting/emailing because they would have to be more involved with the act of piloting several thousand kilos of steel/rubber/aluminum/leather rather than that being second or third on their operation priority list. Besides, any man who can't shift a manual without using the clutch can check their "package" at the door.

meh...in my long daily commute through the city, i got sick of shifting gears in rush hour traffic for an hour a day...even though my new car only came with an auto, i would have chosen it anyway.

as well, people will drive stupidly regardless of whether they have an automatic or manual transmission.

»www.lfpress.com/2012/11/13/pregn···standers
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Kardinal
We will remember them
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said by dirtyjeffer:

meh...in my long daily commute through the city, i got sick of shifting gears in rush hour traffic for an hour a day...even though my new car only came with an auto, i would have chosen it anyway.

It's a personal preference thing, to be sure. I guess I'm so used to driving a manual that being in traffic doesn't bother me as I don't seem to notice. If anything, I like the manual so that I actually slow down when I take my foot off the gas, rather than gas/brake/gas/brake/gas/brake that I see from other drivers.

said by dirtyjeffer:

as well, people will drive stupidly regardless of whether they have an automatic or manual transmission.

Absolutely true. Sad, but true.
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
Yeah... gearing down to slow down is a plus. Really helps too when going down a steep hill... But be careful when gearing down in winter... I did that once with my first manual tranny (Toyota Celica) and I geared down not knowing how slippery it was. The poor Celica did a slight compression burn & threw it sideways on a street... Luckily no on coming traffic.. I was a mere lad in my early 20's at the time...


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

If anything, I like the manual so that I actually slow down when I take my foot off the gas, rather than gas/brake/gas/brake/gas/brake that I see from other drivers.

interestingly, one of the first things i noticed about my new car is it does just that...if i am driving on the highway, and let go of the gas, it doesn't "coast", it slows down like a manual transmission car would...i'm not sure how, but my guess is the torque converter locks up "early" and stays on, which also makes it downshift as you continue to slow down...when i take the off ramps on a highway, if i "coast", it will even downshift like a manual as i round the bend...it is pretty close to feeling like a DSG in how it behaves...it isn't a DSG, but my guess is it may be "programmed" similar in how it behaves.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

Yeah... gearing down to slow down is a plus. Really helps too when going down a steep hill...

my car has the "Tiptronic" feature, so i can move the shifter to the left and "kick it up or down" to manually control the shifting...i can even start in 2nd if i want (to help minimize wheel spin on a slippery surface).


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Most autos now have the ability to manually shift. Comes in real handy at times.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to dirtyjeffer
Video of a Duster drag car and a Lenco tranny from a drivers pov...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zx54zjDU4s


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
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reply to Gone
said by Gone:

Most autos now have the ability to manually shift. Comes in real handy at times.

But it's just not the same without a clutch.


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
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Kelowna, BC
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Or, the same control.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
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join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to Kardinal
Manual transmissions (shifting with a clutch) are not cool because they are not green enough for the fuel economy and emissions regulations that will be in place in the next decade and beyond. The carburetor disappeared for the same reason. I don't miss it any more than I miss manual steering, manual brakes, a window crank or unlocking with a key.

There's a reason why cars with 5+ speed automatics get better mileage than sticks: they be automated and computerized to the car's individual power profile. And, if there's a breakthrough in battery technology that reduces the charging time to a few minutes instead of a few hours, cars with clutches will disappear for good.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
And a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air, 1955 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing or 1930's Auburn Boattail are cooler then most cars made today....


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 recommendation

reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

Manual transmissions (shifting with a clutch) are not cool because they are not green enough for the fuel economy and emissions regulations that will be in place in the next decade and beyond. The carburetor disappeared for the same reason. I don't miss it any more than I miss manual steering, manual brakes, a window crank or unlocking with a key.

There's a reason why cars with 5+ speed automatics get better mileage than sticks: they be automated and computerized to the car's individual power profile. And, if there's a breakthrough in battery technology that reduces the charging time to a few minutes instead of a few hours, cars with clutches will disappear for good.

It's not only about fuel economy or being green. Some of us drive cars that we find exciting.