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dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

cement experts - does this look right?

A friend is having a house built and they poured the foundation walls and in a few spots they look like this...







Should these be re-done? I have the feeling they should but haven't said anything until I get some expert inputs... any ideas?


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
That's NFG...they're supposed to "vibrate" (by whatever means) during the pour to remove air and consolidate the concrete.

Smearing some concrete over that to conceal the defect is not sufficient.


clevere1
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Vancouver, WA
kudos:1
reply to dib22
I'm not expert ... but you would think that the foundation wall would need to be completely smooth for structural reasons.
--
Where's th' DAFFY DUCK EXHIBIT??


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to dib22
I would say re-done. That wall is going to absorb moisture like no tomorrow.

kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
reply to dib22
I wouldn't except it. They were really lazy. It wouldn't have taken much to do it right, it's such a short wall ...


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to dib22
what a sloppy job, ...do over


Sc0tt
Kneedragger
Premium
join:2000-11-13
Stockholm, NJ
reply to dib22
i'd cancel that check ASAP and have someone that knows what they're doing redo it.

that has to hold an entire house up. it doesn't look up to that task.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
reply to dib22
I'm no expert on concrete. But, if it *looks* like shitty work, it's probably shitty work. I can't imagine exposed rebar being acceptable.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

sancraig

join:2003-11-05
Saint Louis, MO
reply to dib22
If its just a spot or two we would normally patch it. If it was 1/4 of the pour or more we'd tear it out. It relly depends on what the contract states.


Pacrat
Old and Cranky
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to dib22
Conrete work should never have voids in it... anywhere!!!


PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
Northport, NY
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to dib22
It looks like it wasn't mixed well before the pour. then was not vibrated.


PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
Northport, NY
kudos:3
reply to dib22
Yikes I just enlarged the first pic! The rebar is showing! the back wall has a VERY visible seam that looks especially bad. The whole back wall looks like crap. I would not build a house on that foundation. Did these guys ever work with concrete before?
--
“My horse fights with me and fasts with me because if he is to carry me into battle, he must know my heart and I must know his or we shall never become brothers.
-Plenty Coups, Chief of the Crow”


Zorack

join:2001-12-14
Fayetteville, WV
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to dib22
All I can say is damn. That crap is gonna crumble before you know it,I'm with the others in going to the dudes who did this and kick their ass and make them do it right(or as someone said void the check to this company and hire someone who knows what the hell they are doing)
--
Matt Barlow Rules! Bring him back to Iced Earth! \m/


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
reply to dib22


Hopefully he isn't dealing with a "tract home" scenario where he has nothing to say about the work being done. And, if he isn't and this is a private situation, he needs to get some new concrete people. Like now.


flibby3655
Bully Spotter
Premium
join:2004-12-19
Lompoc, CA

1 recommendation

reply to dib22
I'm a public works inspector, deal with concrete daily and no WAY would I accept that.
--
"Safe in the permanent gaze of a cold glass eye"


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to dib22
That's not concrete!

That's just gravel with some glue.

woah!


smann

join:2001-02-04
Midlothian, VA

2 recommendations

reply to dib22
I'm a Structural Engineer and what you have there is poor workmanship that is not acceptable for structural purposes. There is improper consolidation (likely due to inadequate vibration) and inadequate cover on reinforcing. I'd be willing to bet the compressive strength on this area is way below the design capacity.

Small areas of honeycombing can be patched, but this is more than is acceptable.

This corner should be removed and replaced at the contractor's expense.


Zorack

join:2001-12-14
Fayetteville, WV
reply to dib22
I also wonder if this is like this in other places that was poured...if it was me I would knock the whole damn thing down and start over fresh.
--
Matt Barlow Rules! Bring him back to Iced Earth! \m/


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
reply to dib22
It's a crap job. A re-do is mandatory.

jp16

join:2010-05-04
united state
reply to dib22
In my state the foundation is required to be inspected by the building dept. I would imagine the same holds true where you are too. There is NO way that should pass any inspection.


dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to dib22
Thanks all I am going to get him to bring it up.

That one corner and around the access port are the only areas where it is large and that corner is the only place I noticed rebar.

There are a couple small spots on the backside but it is no way 1/4 of the pour, in fact most of it looks pretty good that's why that corner caught my eye.

Thanks again everyone I will ask him if he has an inspection scheduled.


Warzau
Premium
join:2000-10-26
Naperville, IL
kudos:1
reply to dib22
UGH Honeycomb in concrete NOT GOOD ever.

»www.concreteconstruction.net/rep···ids.aspx


Archer0T8
aka UnrealArcher

join:2005-01-21
East York, ON
reply to dib22
You're looking at aggregate pop-out in the future when water gets into those voids and exerts pressure, nevermind when it freezes and expands.

The exposed rebar is also giving water a conduit to rust the rebar to no end, effectively making it useless.

I used to do concrete pour inspections up here, and I would have failed an inspection for that. I highly suggest you do the same.


PeeWee
Premium
join:2001-10-21
Madera, CA
reply to dib22
If it is a tract home he would still have a say by contacting the inspection authority himself.
--
Iphone. Helping computer illiteracy become popular since 2007


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to dib22
I'd say that's horrendous.

Do-over.

Problem is they'll try and jack up expenses somewhere to cover it.


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:4
reply to dib22
That is sub-par work.

I just had one poured for a room addition and it was fairly smooth throughout with no gravel showing.

Dave

--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to sancraig
said by sancraig:

If its just a spot or two we would normally patch it. If it was 1/4 of the pour or more we'd tear it out. It relly depends on what the contract states.

If 1/4 of pour?

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to dib22
Do NOT let them backfill, patch, or otherwise cover this up before there is a city building inspection && an inspection by a structural engineer you hire.

Concrete vibration (consolidation) is something that is both easy to over-do & under-do. Over-do and the aggregate falls to the bottom; under-do and you get what's in the photos.

I always prefer to order self-consolidating concrete for large-scale foundation work (ie. Lafarge Agilia - or other similar 'plasticized' products from others) and then minimally vibrate using a 3/4"-1" vibrator. I have numerous core samples of concrete pour/placed this way and they always show proper uniform consolidation.


Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN
reply to dib22
I'm a little late to the party but let me add my 2 cents anyway. In your first pic the honeycomb is so deep I can see the rebar. Whenever rebar is visible to the naked eye it's a problem and in no way can that be passed off as ok or good enough.

sancraig

join:2003-11-05
Saint Louis, MO
reply to nonymous
Yes, if they poured an entire homes foundation, and this was the the only issue he should count himself lucky.

Not to say he should accept this but there are much worse pours than that. Could of had a cold joint, could have been much worse.

Hell seen worse on bridge abutments, guess what they did? They patched it.

If it were my house I would rather them patch this 2'x2' area than cut it out and re-pour it with a seam. I think everybody is very optimistic thinking its all going to be re-poured cause of a 2x2 area.

Op please let us know what becomes of this.

Thanks