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kshusker

join:2009-10-12

1 recommendation

If ISPs are gonna do meters....

they need to be:

...documented exactly how they work
...audited by a third party
...and available to the consumer in real time

That's how my electric meter operates. That's how my water meter operates. ISPs who try opaque, inaccurate, undocumented "metering" need to be taken to task.

Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
Bandwidth charges should also obviously be relative to bandwidth costs. My electric company is only allowed to pass on supplier cost with zero profit


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to kshusker
said by kshusker:

they need to be:

...documented exactly how they work
...audited by a third party
...and available to the consumer in real time

That's how my electric meter operates. That's how my water meter operates. ISPs who try opaque, inaccurate, undocumented "metering" need to be taken to task.

... Local Time Zone as well.
--
Well, does your car at least turn into something else? Sometimes I turn it into a trashcan. Hmm...


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to kshusker
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Why is it so hard for companies like AT&T to get this right?

The example I use is Smoothwall Express. For those that don't know, its a Linux version of a firewall/router. Built into this, is a real time bandwidth measurement tool, complete with charts, that update in real time. Anytime I open the main web page for this, I can see exactly how much bandwidth I have used currently at the time the page loads, how much I have used for the day, and how much I have used for the month (both inbound and outbound numbers).

In fact, here is what mine shows right now

Current: 44.5 Kbit/s / 56.4 Kbit/s (Out / In)
Today: 79.9 MB / 982.1 MB (Out / In)
Month: 2.8 GB / 32.0 GB (Out / In)

What I'm getting at is that the people that developed Smoothwall figured it out, and they offer it to the end user FOR FREE!!!

Bottom line the technology exists, and apparently is not that hard to implement.

Just think of the business that Smoothwall (or companies like it) could get if they worked with AT&T and the other ISP's to implement this on their network. Its a win win!

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
Reviews:
·Charter
It is not hard to get it right, they just do not want to get it right so they can overbill their customers. Need to pay for those Executive bonuses and shareholder dividends any way possible. It will only get worse as the State regulatory bodies keep bending over backward to ease regulations on Telcos.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to Wilsdom
I'm not defending HSI metering but the electric company is an allowed monopoly. Because of this, there are regulations in place that define how they can charge for their service.

Although I believe cable and telcos are really close to being monopolies, at this moment they aren't classified as such and are not regulated. I agree that they should charge fair prices for their products and services but right now, they can charge whatever they want and do whatever they want until we can legally provide sufficient evidence that they act as a monopolies and should be regulated.

Unfortunately they have a lot of money and firewalls in place to protect themselves from such consumer action. If possible, I'd favor figuring out a way to foster more competition. Unfortunately they employ a lot of money and firewalls to protect against competition. Kind of sounds like the record is skipping, doesn't it?


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to Dolgan
I get that part.

However, you cannot tell me that every IT person who works for said companies in the development of these meters has not raised the question during testing like "I know I downloaded 500 MB, but the meter is showing 800 MB. This is not working right, and we need to fix this before we move it to production".

Are you saying that if a member of the development team raised that issue, it either fell on deaf ears, or the person was let go? I know if I was working on the development of said application, and during the testing it was not working the way it was suppose to, I would bring it to the attention of whoever was in charge, and demand that it gets fixed.

The bottom line is you do not release software into production if it is not working the way it is suppose to.

Looking at it from another standpoint. Someone (probably a team of people) wrote the software that is in place in thousands of cash registers that scan the item, and add the price to your bill. If during the testing of that software, say an item was scanned and it came up a different price. Just think if that "mistake" was released without being fixed? The team that was in place on that project had to make sure that if the item scanned was $5.00, the program read the bar code correctly and charged you $5.00. Not $5.50, not $4.79, but $5.00. Its simple logic!

To me, the same rules of development and testing come in place here. Either code the meters to work, or don't put them into use. Its that's simple.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
Reviews:
·Charter
quote:
Are you saying that if a member of the development team raised that issue, it either fell on deaf ears, or the person was let go? I know if I was working on the development of said application, and during the testing it was not working the way it was suppose to, I would bring it to the attention of whoever was in charge, and demand that it gets fixed.

The bottom line is you do not release software into production if it is not working the way it is suppose to.
That is exactly what I am saying/implying. Your "demand" to get it fixed will end up in you losing your job and/or just be laughed at. It is solely the bottom line that matters to the Managers and Executives. Would suggest getting a job at a Telco if you want to see what it is like, but as they outsource a majority of the work it is harder to get an actual "in house" programming job with the Telcos now than it was 10 years ago when I worked at SBC/Ameritech.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to plencnerb
One difference is that you are measuring it from YOUR side of the modem and I think this is part of hte problem.

If they add something like this and then only track the LAN side of their modem they will not measure all the crap passed from the modem. However, they also wont be able to filter out crap that is "firewalled" if a customer is just using their modem in bridge mode.

Their issue is: they should not be measuring overhead and they should not be measuring stuff that is being blocked by the firewall.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to plencnerb
said by plencnerb:

To me, the same rules of development and testing come in place here. Either code the meters to work, or don't put them into use. Its that's simple.

Ditto for voting machines. But I digress.
We now take you back to our regularly scheduled "overcharging for bits & bytes" discussion.


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to rradina
said by rradina:

I'm not defending HSI metering but the electric company is an allowed monopoly.

So are many HSI companies.


maartena
Elmo
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:3
reply to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

One difference is that you are measuring it from YOUR side of the modem and I think this is part of hte problem.

If they add something like this and then only track the LAN side of their modem they will not measure all the crap passed from the modem. However, they also wont be able to filter out crap that is "firewalled" if a customer is just using their modem in bridge mode.

Their issue is: they should not be measuring overhead and they should not be measuring stuff that is being blocked by the firewall.

In a setup where you have 1 LAN port active, no wireless on your gateway, and all traffic to/from the internet passes that 1 LAN port to your own wireless gateway... THAT should be the traffic you should be charged for, after all THAT is the traffic you requested.

If the Gateway receives 20% more information than you actually requested due to overhead, packet drops and firewall blocks.... you are talking some serious money. What about DDOS attacks? Failed downloads that can't be resumed?

If a malicious user plotting against you would send you continues data for a month at the rate of 1 Mbps.... you wouldn't even notice it, and probably AT&T would either.... but you would be downloading about 20 GB a day that way. That racks up a huge bill at the end of the month without you requesting ANY of that data.

And with the U-verse interleaving.... how much of a percentage of packets are lost just to make sure you get a good data rate?
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to NOCTech75
The video portion of their business, yes. But I was pretty sure the HSI is unregulated, isn't it?


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by rradina:

The video portion of their business, yes. But I was pretty sure the HSI is unregulated, isn't it?

For many Americans they can only get 1 or the other.. DSL or Cable hence creating a monopoly.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
That's why I said this in my original post:

...until we can legally provide sufficient evidence that they act as a monopolies and should be regulated...



We may think they are monopolies and they might be monopolies but at this time, the FTC has not taken action to classify them as such and is not imposing regulations. I wish it were different and I agree with you but legally, they aren't subject to any regulation. They also file suit against the FCC whenever they try to impose things like "network neutrality" or any actions that attempt at a definition without sufficient loop holes to let them do whatever they please. Even when the FTC puts conditions on buyouts and mergers, there are loop holes, stall tactics and half-hearted attempts to comply