dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
656
share rss forum feed


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest

1 edit

The price of Apple products

Usability Post
This article talks about someone else's article and the general theme of the need for high end, more powerful computers for "casual users". His closing comments are things I usually try and tell people about whenever the discussion of the "high price of Apple products" is brought up. Thought you might find it interesting.
quote:
Although Apple products are commonly considered “premium priced”, many of them are targeted at the mass consumer market, not the pro market, and to ensure that those consumers get the experience Apple wants them to have there is a threshold below which they do not wish to go. Whether or not you believe Apple’s products are overpriced, they do offer tight hardware and software integration with a strong focus on the quality of the user experience, and thus far, this has led to the delight of their users and healthy profits for the company.

To capture market share, other manufacturers tend to offer various grades of machines, from cheap low-end variety to expensive high-end offerings, but in doing so there is a great danger of also cheapening the user experience at the low-end. As you cut corners to make a product more affordable, you also cut corners in the device’s usability, and while an advanced user might be able to salvage it and make the most of an underpowered machine, a casual user will be left unaided to face all of its shortcomings and pitfalls.



Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
Funny you should post this, as I was thinking of something that a Verizon sales person and I had discussed.

We both agree that Apple makes nice products, but we also agreed that they tend to be expensive. Considering the fact Apple gets 30% of every app sale in the App store, plus part of every sale in Itunes/Ibooks.
Also consider that Droid has a wide varity of phones, and a few have better features then the Iphone.

Also, after experiencing the Ipad, then the Nexus 7, to me, there isn't all that much difference in the divices. Ok, sure the names and OSes, and prices are different.
But as a user, they both feel the same to me [using the device].

I still can't see how Apple can justify it's price, and how people are so willing to bankrupt themselves by buying new devices every year [then again, I knew an Apple addict. he'd sell his old devices first, if possible, then buy the new ones. Or in case of phones try to get a few, or reduced price upgrade]. So he wasn't really bankrupting himself, and maybe the term is a tad harsh, but I don't think so.
Then again, I still have and use my 1st gen Ipad, though I'm using my nexus 7 more.

Also, my wife just got us Iphone 4. She had to get a cell phone plan for work and heard "free" when they talked about the Iphone 4. So she went for it *shakes head*, to get the 4s would have been 100 bucks each. So she went with the 4.

As for the second part of your quote, I loled. Because people seem to love he Kindle fire and the Nexus 7.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
said by Snakeoil:

Also, after experiencing the Ipad, then the Nexus 7, to me, there isn't all that much difference in the divices. Ok, sure the names and OSes, and prices are different.
But as a user, they both feel the same to me [using the device].

Every year, for the past 10 years or more, Consumer Reports rates Apple computers #1 in reliability
quote:
I still can't see how Apple can justify it's price
In addition to the reliability, Apple guarantees its hardware and software all works together seamlessly. If something doesn't work, you can walk it into an Apple store and get it fixed (I don't know how far free goes into that, too). Read the Jobs biography to learn more about the quality in the hardware down to the screws.

If you buy hardware for Windows and it doesn't work right, Microsoft won't help you. If Windows has a bug in it, Dell can't help you.
quote:
As for the second part of your quote, I loled. Because people seem to love he Kindle fire and the Nexus 7.

There are people who love Windows, too, soooo..... (I'm not knocking either.)

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to howardfine
Apple can justify its price for the same reason Lexus can, People are willing to pay for it.

I will say that I really should not exactly compare Apple to luxury cars because really Apple is not a prestige thing. the iPhone is the Toyota of smart phones, you see them everywhere and the iPod is like Kleenex and has become almost generic as a term for MP3 player.

But comparing them to Toyota is not too far off, They are reliable and you do pay a bit more for one.

What really secures Apple's market is integration, They have designed all their iGadgets and computers to somehow work together as a unit. And this is only possible when you have the whole chain from hardware to OS.

BTW I will note that many windows issues are not solely a fault of Microsoft but also the fact that due to their needing to serve markets that upgrade slowly(looking at you corporate world.) MS cannot simply shed large sums of legacy code between OS versions. Apple can come and state in say some future version of OSX(lets call it Atomic Panther) "all support for Macs and Macbooks from before x date are no longer supported and some software designed for that era may also not work" And that is that.

if MS stated "In Windows 8 all non 64bit applications will no longer function" they would face an unholy shitstorm.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to howardfine
quote:
If you buy hardware for Windows and it doesn't work right, Microsoft won't help you. If Windows has a bug in it, Dell can't help you.

Now that's not true. I've seldom had problems with getting hardware to work with windows, or linux. If I did, I was able to solve the problem for myself.
Because, like many already know, calling tech support is often a lost cause.
Hence why Staples, Best Buy and others that offer computer support, seem to have a decent amount of business.
I've also known people that have apple products get ticked at the quality of the support the had gotten from Apple.

quote:
In addition to the reliability, Apple guarantees its hardware and software all works together seamlessly. If something doesn't work, you can walk it into an Apple store and get it fixed (I don't know how far free goes into that, too). Read the Jobs biography to learn more about the quality in the hardware down to the screws.

Should it be any surprise that it's that way? Apple is a closed/walled garden. It's stuff better work. Apple controls hardware and software. Where as Windows has little to no control over hardware. Which is why if a device isn't playing well in windows, it's more the hardware manufacturers problem, because they have a driver issue.
But also, for that "wonderful seamless" stuff apple promises you, you get limited choices in how you "tweak" the hardware. As I've never owned an Apple PC [personal computer], I don't know how upgradeable, or what is upgradeable in them. I'm sure you can swap out ram and hard drives, but what of mother boards and processors?

One my courrent PCs [personal computer] I can swap out anything I want to. Though windows will have a hissy fit, linux for the most part runs with the changes.

I don't love windows, I just use it. I find windows gets bloated after a couple years of updates and slows down. Linux on the other hand seems to run zippy, no matter the number of updates.
If I had a real choice, and thanks to Steam, I shall soon. I'd buy a PC with no OS and run linux.
But as I like games, I have a PC with windows. Though the majority of my games are now on my PS3 [meaning my need for a windows game machine is very low]. And the one windows game I do play, runs fine on linux with the use of a free program called playonlinux.

But then again, I use computers like I use cars. I don't care the brand, as long as I can get from point A to B. Which any car can do. Same with computers.

Hence why I shop for what I think is affordable and offers me value for what I'm willing to spend.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS
reply to howardfine
Apple isn't in the $400 shit box PC market. They're in the $1000+ PC market an in that market, the premium market, they rule over their competitors.

Personally I simply can't use a $400 crap PC. They annoy me. They're slow, noisy, unreliable...with LED lights brighter than 3 Suns. I'd rather drop $600 on a totally silent mini that takes up virtually 0 desk space and runs a clearly superior OS to anything else out there.

In terms of App store pricing, given I have multiple Macs the app store saves me a bundle. With Windows, AutoCAD LT is $800+ per seat but for the Mac it's $800 for as many Macs as I own. Just that difference alone pays for the small difference if any between a crappy PC and a Mac.


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Snakeoil
I'm over the whole fixing computers thing. That was cool in 1990 but not today. When it comes to getting work done, I'd rather spend more on a Snap-On or a Mac wrench than a cheap crappy jaw spreading nut rounder from Sears. It's cheaper in the short term but you end up having to do more work in the long run.


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
reply to Kearnstd

I will say that I really should not exactly compare Apple to luxury cars because really Apple is not a prestige thing. the iPhone is the Toyota of smart phones, you see them everywhere and the iPod is like Kleenex and has become almost generic as a term for MP3 player.

I think the luxury car analogy is very apropos. People buy Lexus because they've come to expect a certain minimum quality standard, and a premium ownership experience. Nevermind that a Lexus ES might be almost part-for-part identical to a Toyota Camry (they were in the early 90s!) - things optional on the Toyota are likely standard on the Lexus.

Ford makes some really nice products if you get all the upgrades. A Ford Edge is actually very comparable in price to a BMW X1, and even has more features. But if you go with the Ford, you're going to get Ford service when it needs to go in for maintenance. Lexus will give you a loaner car for free while they work on it, and likely offer you coffee while you speak to your service person.

iPhones as common as Kleenex? Maybe. But I think exclusivity is such a small part of the equation. Apple has control over the whole product. I always know what I'm going to get when I buy a new iPhone.

The Samsung Galaxy may be a great phone, but with Samsung I never know how well they're going to support it once I've taken ownership. When I had a Samsung Blackjack I had to wait what seemed like an eternity for firmware updates to very obvious problems. And even when Microsoft did finally release a patch to Windows Mobile, I had to wait even longer for Samsung to release a firmware patch for my specific device. By the time the stars aligned Samsung didn't care, they were trying to peddle a Blackjack II.

Yes, Apple withholds features for new phones (MMS from iPhone 1, and Siri being notable examples) but it seems they don't completely abandon their hardware nearly as quickly. iTunes 10 still happily updates my 2005 iPod, and its firmware has been updated to add things like gapless playback.

I really get a kick out of people complaining about the "apple tax". Everyday people splurge on expensive dinners, vacations, clothes, jewelry, cars, alcohols, video games, AV gear, etc ... why the heck is it surprising that some people go for luxury computer equipment?
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to skeechan
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and wha they like/don't like.

For me, at this time, I can't see spending 1000 bucks or more on a computer. Though my last home built PC did cost about a grand to build. But it's lasted me 5 years, and it'll have to last a few years more.
My kids PCs were cheap at the time [we weren't going to spend a lot of money that 8 year old kids were going to use]. The computers survived 5 years of abuse, and will shortly be retired. Replaced again, by a low priced computer.

We do have plan to get them Macs when they hit college. Mainly so they'll fit in with the other kids and have a "kool" factor.

As for doing a lot of work on the windows computers in my home, I've actually had to do very little. So I am often "surprised" when I read about te problems people have with their computers. Apparently, the ones in my home aren't being used correctly, as they are pretty much problem free.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:

Apple can justify its price for the same reason Lexus can, People are willing to pay for it.


You are implying neither Apple nor Lexus add value over and above what Chevrolet offers but it's already been shown that they do.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
reply to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:

quote:
If you buy hardware for Windows and it doesn't work right, Microsoft won't help you. If Windows has a bug in it, Dell can't help you.

Now that's not true. I've seldom had problems with getting hardware to work with windows, or linux.

I don't understand your point. If the PC you buy at Best Buy doesn't work with Windows, Microsoft isn't going to help you.
quote:
In addition to the reliability, Apple guarantees its hardware and software all works together seamlessly. If something doesn't work, you can walk it into an Apple store and get it fixed (I don't know how far free goes into that, too). Read the Jobs biography to learn more about the quality in the hardware down to the screws.

Should it be any surprise that it's that way? Apple is a closed/walled garden. It's stuff better work.
Well, that's the point I'm trying to make.
quote:
But also, for that "wonderful seamless" stuff apple promises you, you get limited choices in how you "tweak" the hardware. As I've never owned an Apple PC [personal computer], I don't know how upgradeable, or what is upgradeable in them. I'm sure you can swap out ram and hard drives, but what of mother boards and processors?
Except where Apple supplies it, then you are customizing and most companies won't support a product that's been modified. Neither will any Windows PC manufacturer.
quote:
I don't love windows, I just use it. I find windows gets bloated after a couple years of updates and slows down.
Heh. I just finished reformat/reinstall Windows for that very reason.
quote:
Linux on the other hand seems to run zippy, no matter the number of updates.
If I had a real choice, and thanks to Steam, I shall soon. I'd buy a PC with no OS and run linux.
I've run nothing but FreeBSD and Linux since 2006. Are you aware OSX is certified Unix?
quote:
Hence why I shop for what I think is affordable and offers me value for what I'm willing to spend.

I have not bought a new computer since 2001 as Windows users "upgrade" and give me their "old" machines. It must be the economy but I haven't gotten one lately and will be building my own super-duper-colossal-craptacular-monster-god-machine....in-3D! soon.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
reply to djrobx
said by djrobx:

I always know what I'm going to get when I buy a new iPhone.

The Samsung Galaxy may be a great phone, but with Samsung I never know how well they're going to support it once I've taken ownership.

This is an EXCELLENT point! Though I hate to compare it to chain restaurants (but I am in that business, too) knowing what you are going to get goes a long way to helping a business like that succeed and make happier customers.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
reply to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:

We do have plan to get them Macs when they hit college. Mainly so they'll fit in with the other kids and have a "kool" factor.

I have two boys who graduated recently. When they started, they were the only ones who did NOT have Mac desktops or notebooks and that was 5-6 years ago.


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
reply to howardfine
Actually if you buy a PC from Best Buy, I would think that Microsoft won't be helping you anyway. It's an OEM Windows license so OS support is provided by the OEM, not Microsoft. If you buy the retail boxed Windows, then MS provides the support (hence the higher price).


not quite right
I'm not cool enough to be a Mac person

join:2001-06-23
Puyallup, WA
kudos:1
reply to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:

Also, my wife just got us Iphone 4. She had to get a cell phone plan for work and heard "free" when they talked about the Iphone 4. So she went for it *shakes head*, to get the 4s would have been 100 bucks each. So she went with the 4.

Annnnd she would have been taking those right back for at Least for the 4s if that happen in my house. That was both cheap & ignorant on her part.
--
Not many people know this, but I happen to be quite famous...