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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to hm

Re: New Band Rates?

It looks like:

1) Bell proposed new unbundled loop fees (not dry loop fees, although those are defined as 50% of the unbundled loop fees)
2) The CRTC overrode Bell's proposed fees by using a different interpretation of cost
3) Bell was upset and submitted an R&V
4) This ruling from the CRTC says that the CRTC did not err, their corrected rates will stand.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
said by Guspaz:

It looks like:

1) Bell proposed new unbundled loop fees (not dry loop fees, although those are defined as 50% of the unbundled loop fees)
2) The CRTC overrode Bell's proposed fees by using a different interpretation of cost
3) Bell was upset and submitted an R&V
4) This ruling from the CRTC says that the CRTC did not err, their corrected rates will stand.

Actually, the rates are now lower than before Bell filed their rate increase. Their cost studied were flawed.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


hm

@videotron.ca
The bottom of Table 2 (new approved rates) looks more expensive at the higher ends by a dollar or two. Maybe 25-cents lower on bands A to C.

Or is that not the correct data? Or am I reading it wrong.

I'm comparing Bell Canada (Not Bell Aliant), Table 2. First row Versus last row.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
You have to compare the old Phase II cost to the new Phase II cost (line 1 and line 7). Line 8 is after the allowed markup is added.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


hm

@videotron.ca
You are right. Saw my mistake when i looked it over.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to HeadSpinning
Does this mean the iisps will get a retroactive refund over the past 3 years?

I don't expect the users to get refunds (~1/month), but for an iisp lets say with 10K users over paying loop fee's @ 10K/month over 3 years... that a nice injection.... $360K

Seems to me the CRTC states this is retroactive.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

It looks like:

4) This ruling from the CRTC says that the CRTC did not err, their corrected rates will stand.

Actually the CRTC stated they did err. They state this more than once in their release (link in first post).

Goldberg wrote about it today. He states the previous topic on transparency (»The end of ####? - or CRTC orders telecom companies to open) is mainly due to the CRTC finding errors in calculations thus the reason to open up the numbers for scrutiny. Nothing about being open with the public or any such voodoo like that, like what Geist and his minions are stating.

He states it's about 10% less across the board and indeed retroactive over 3 years.

So iisp's will be seeing a nice refund there. But will this overpaying of loop fee's be refunded to the people who actually overpaid? Or will the iisp's just pocket it? It's roughly equal to about 30+$ per year per customer it seems. Unless i'm mistaken.


hm

@videotron.ca
said by hm :

[ It's roughly equal to about 30+$ per year per customer it seems.

Correction: ~15/year + tax etc


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
If I'm not mistaken, the cost of the Dry Loop Band Rate is 50% of those numbers, so under $3 for Band A, and under $6 for Band B. Is that right?

If so, $10 flat Dry Loop fees are insane, and even Teksavvy's $7.25 is a fair bit too high...
--
electronicsguru.ca


hm

@videotron.ca
said by Teddy Boom:

If so, $10 flat Dry Loop fees are insane, and even Teksavvy's $7.25 is a fair bit too high...

I think some ISP's charge one flat price regardless of the band rate you are in for their dry-loop. If I'm not mistaken I think Ebox & Acanac charge a flat rate of 8$ or 10$.

These so-called indi's mark it up a lot.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to Teddy Boom
said by Teddy Boom:

If I'm not mistaken, the cost of the Dry Loop Band Rate is 50% of those numbers, so under $3 for Band A, and under $6 for Band B. Is that right?

If so, $10 flat Dry Loop fees are insane, and even Teksavvy's $7.25 is a fair bit too high...

If you only knew the margins in every other consumer products sector other than ICT, you wouldn't be saying that.

Its amazing how people will gladly pay $100 for a pair of jeans that cost $3.25 to make, but when it comes to paying $7.25 extra to get Internet without dialtone, it's considered "insane" markup.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


chalufa

@electronicbox.net
said by HeadSpinning:

Its amazing how people will gladly pay $100 for a pair of jeans that cost $3.25 to make, but when it comes to paying $7.25 extra to get Internet without dialtone, it's considered "insane" markup.

Imagine if you had to pay an extra $7.25 because you didn't buy another unrelated product along with your $30 jeans purchase. You'd kinda feel cheated. Or worse, being told its $9.10 or more because you live in this area and not that one. I can tell you most people would probably be ticked off at that point.

What makes it even worse is the fact Bell, Telus and probably every other ILEC don't charge their own clients dry-loop fees. Perhaps there is some truth to this "insane" markup comment.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
Think of it this way - you're getting a discount because they're adding the DSL service to an existing phone line.

Regardless of what the ILECs charge their own retail customers, the fact is they charge IISPs and CLECs to use their facilities, and there has to be cost recovery and reasonable margin on that charge.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


hm

@videotron.ca
said by HeadSpinning:

Regardless of what the ILECs charge their own retail customers, the fact is they charge IISPs and CLECs to use their facilities, and there has to be cost recovery and reasonable margin on that charge.

Didn't Bell et al also raise recently raise rates for access to facilities? Or was it to the C/O? Seems I recall seeing a CRTC filing on this.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
said by hm :

Didn't Bell et al also raise recently raise rates for access to facilities? Or was it to the C/O? Seems I recall seeing a CRTC filing on this.

Bell has filed for price increases on CO floor space as well as power.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

funny0

join:2010-12-22
said by HeadSpinning:

said by hm :

Didn't Bell et al also raise recently raise rates for access to facilities? Or was it to the C/O? Seems I recall seeing a CRTC filing on this.

Bell has filed for price increases on CO floor space as well as power.

its the waaa we didn't get to buy astral so we gonna make everyone else pay scene is it?


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
said by funny0:

its the waaa we didn't get to buy astral so we gonna make everyone else pay scene is it?

They'll own Astral before 2013 is over. Bank on it.

Mike


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by dillyhammer:

They'll own Astral before 2013 is over. Bank on it.

Doubt it. In fact, I'd be willing to bet the CRTC's response will be identical to what it was before - not in the public's interest, therefore denied.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to funny0
said by funny0:

said by HeadSpinning:

said by hm :

Didn't Bell et al also raise recently raise rates for access to facilities? Or was it to the C/O? Seems I recall seeing a CRTC filing on this.

Bell has filed for price increases on CO floor space as well as power.

its the waaa we didn't get to buy astral so we gonna make everyone else pay scene is it?

No - they filed for those before the Astral deal was rejected.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net