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kdhamann

join:2003-11-08
Medina, OH
reply to Toguro

No more Hostess Twinkies for a while

I was late and only got some snack cakes.

»money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/co···closing/


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Sadly, I feel Twinkies will be around for several decades even though they have stopped production.



N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

I think someone will pick up the rights to, and production of, this product.

People don't know what they've got until they lose it. Whoever brings back the Twinkie will be seen as the savior of an American icon.

I'm not a huge fan, I would eat them every now and again and I enjoyed them when I did. Unfortunately they were increasingly harder to find in my regular travels in the Philly area (mostly Tastykake country, who recently gave up & was sold to Bimbo).

Twinkie the Kid will ride again, just on a different horse...
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power



diablo1892
Plough, sew, water, harvest. Repeat.

join:2011-04-21
Friendly, WV
Reviews:
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reply to CXM_Splicer

said by CXM_Splicer:

Sadly, I feel Twinkies will be around for several decades even though they have stopped production.

This is depressing for me.. I eat those little debbie cakes once every now and then but the other stuff i love and i really hate seeing it go, it sucks. I know about diabetes and i know about over weight and all that junk but i love Hostess food products, i'll never let the feeling go, i am not over weight and im not a psycho over this food but i just love it so bad.

When I dunk my doughnut(s) into pure dairy milk, it tastes so darn good or a cookie(: either one taste greattttt
--
HT1000/ 1 watt/ Power Max plan/ 4 pc's on a D-Link wired router/ wireless D-Link router with password
Support only the gaming company's that matter the most, pay for something that actually is worth buying or has a good reason for how much it's worth.

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to N3OGH

The Twinkie is definitely an American icon but I wonder what the recipe was that got it that way. The last Twinkie I had (probably back in the 80's) left me with the strange feeling that not a single ingredient in what I had just eaten was natural. When the first Twinkies were produced in the 30's, I suspect they tasted a little different than they do today.



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 recommendation

reply to CXM_Splicer

said by CXM_Splicer:

Sadly, I feel Twinkies will be around for several decades even though they have stopped production.

Being that there isn't a single natural ingredient in them, they can never spoil LOL. It's sad that another 18,500 jobs have left the country never to return. The company tried their best to stay afloat even offering the unions a 25% stake in the company and a seat on the Board of Directors, but the unions were hell bent on closing the company and killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. I hope they are happy now.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.


N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
reply to CXM_Splicer

No doubt, along with a lot of other products.

"Life's about changing, nothing ever stays the same".

Most everything has changed since the 30's, some for the better, some for the worse.

Better:

Cars
Airplanes
Leadership of Germany
Civil rights in America
Lawnmowers

Worse:
Twinkie recipe
Population density
Frequency of milk deliveries
Quality of passenger train service (nationwide)

BTW, I'm not looking to make a political statement, just to be a bit satirical so flamers take a powder.....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power



N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
reply to meeeeeeeeee

Straw man argument from both sides of the coin.

One side will say the unions killed the company. Other side will say the executives mismanaged it into the ground & decided it was time to take the money and run.

As with any argument, the truth often lies in the center of the debate. The unions played a part, but the company suffered from competition with stronger consolidated entities in the marketplace. In addition to slipping into bankruptcy protection twice in the past decade, Hostess faced significant headwinds such as the recent economic downturn & the impact of rising commodity prices. They had a chance to make a go of it a few years ago, but when the economic "bones" rolled things just didn't work out.

The negotiations between Hostess & the union that represented a fraction of their workplace didn't work out, and both parties decided they were better off parted.

Hostess will liquidate, and the employees involved will be forced to seek employment elsewhere. This is the free market in action, and I seriously don't think either side is to blame...
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to meeeeeeeeee

Actually, the way I heard it, they had already given concessions three years ago in another bankruptcy claim. The new management was asking for further concessions while the last CEO got a big fat bonus and left the company. The workers weren't willing to sacrifice anymore but I highly doubt they intentionally wanted to close the company.

Hostess got caught in a tug-of-war of greed.



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 edit

said by CXM_Splicer:

Actually, the way I heard it, they had already given concessions three years ago in another bankruptcy claim. The new management was asking for further concessions while the last CEO got a big fat bonus and left the company. The workers weren't willing to sacrifice anymore but I highly doubt they intentionally wanted to close the company.

Hostess got caught in a tug-of-war of greed.

Yes they had already given concessions for three years, but in this particular case, management was trying to keep the goose alive. The retail price of their products had DOUBLED over the last two years. I, as a consumer who used to regularly enjoy their products, stopped buying them entirely. I couldn't AFFORD THEM! I was NOT alone.

The company offered the unions a 25% stake in the company, a seat on the Board of directors, and MANY OTHER concessions. Rather than teaming up with the company for the good of BOTH, the UNIONS chose to strike and drive the company OUT OF BUSINESS. This is one of those RARE cases where the Company really tried.

18,500 jobs have gone poof! Forever gone. Are those employees better off now? I understand that good jobs are plentiful... so it's a great time to be greedy. THOSE jobs are gone.

It's the old monkey trap. Small hole in a coconut tied to a tree. Monkey reaches in to grab some coconut, makes a fist, and can't get the hand out the hole. Is it smart enough to relax the fist and let the coconut meat go? Nope. Neither were the union employees.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to kdhamann

Hostess could have weathered the unions and upper management if the War-on-Junk-Food hadn't sent it on a death march.

The last Hostess product I ate were Snowballs back in the early 90s.
Mostly I didn't care for their product line; it wasn't much better than Little Debbie.
When I did eat commercial snacks I liked stuff by Dolly Madison and Tastykake.

But nowadays the only pastries I eat are home made, gluten free and beyond tasty.
(Though I still have to choose between them and losing weight)

Cya Hostess. Can't say I'll miss you but it's always a little sad to lose an American icon.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

2 edits

Geee... A LOT of the brands you talk about were OWNED by Hostess. They're gone, with a whole lotta jobs. Dolly Madison, Drakes, Wonder Bread... All gone.

Oh Yeah... they ALSO did a lot of baking for many local.regional companies, which are now SOL. More jobs gone. Look at the wrappers of your favorites that say "Interstate Brands". Yep, was baked by Hostess... it's gone.


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
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NYC
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reply to meeeeeeeeee

said by meeeeeeeee :

Yes they had already given concessions for three years, but in this particular case, management was trying to keep the goose alive.

I agree, in the end, the union could have made massive concessions to try and bring the company back from the death plunge. Maybe they could have saved the company and maybe they couldn't have. Realistically, who is going to take the wheel when someone else has pushed the plane to within a few feet of the ground and it is pointed straight down?

Giving a union a stake in the company and a seat on the board of directors is a great thing... companies should be doing it NOW, before they get into trouble. And by 'union' I mean the workers standing together, not their often corrupt leaders. As long as there remains an adversarial relationship between management and labor, you will have an inefficient system with a tendency to crash. Labor should be treated as the business partners they really are.

You can't beat the goose to within an inch of its life then rush it to the vet.


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

said by CXM_Splicer:

You can't beat the goose to within an inch of its life then rush it to the vet.

We've talked before and I know you're a reasonable and intelligent person, so to you... this goes without saying. It's a two way street. You can't beat the goose to within an inch of its life and complain you're being given a nearly dead goose. I think had reasonable people like you and I had been running things...We'd have a healthy, happy goose.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
reply to CXM_Splicer

said by CXM_Splicer:

I agree, in the end, the union could have made massive concessions to try and bring the company back from the death plunge. Maybe they could have saved the company and maybe they couldn't have. Realistically, who is going to take the wheel when someone else has pushed the plane to within a few feet of the ground and it is pointed straight down?

Don't forget that the other union which represented Hostess workers, the Teamsters, agreed to concessions, and they were practically begging the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers' International Union (BCTGM) to do the same.

This is how unions for airlines operate... they give back benefits when times are bad and they fight hard for benefits when times are good. The company stays in business and the employees get paid. Would the BCTGM giving in saved the company? Nobody will know now, but as someone who took a pay cut as opposed to losing my job, I'd definitely have taken the pay cut.
--
USA 2012 - the mooches won.


Kommie
Premium
join:2003-05-13
united state
kudos:3
reply to kdhamann

Bad management but lets blame the Union. America will buy it.

»underthemountainbunker.com/2012/···bonuses/



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

said by Kommie:

Bad management but lets blame the Union. America will buy it.

LOL bad management? The bad management was offering the union a seat on the board and a direct say in the management of the company and this union turned it down.
--
USA 2012 - the mooches won.


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
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reply to pnh102

seems it wasn't just about a pay cut. Kind of a worst case scenario for everyone but the creditors as usual. The unions argument was about pension funding more than pay.

»management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/···ankrupt/



Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to meeeeeeeeee

said by meeeeeeeeee:

Geee... A LOT of the brands you talk about were OWNED by Hostess. They're gone, with a whole lotta jobs. Dolly Madison, Drakes, Wonder Bread... All gone.

I mentioned three + Hostess. That doesn't seem like a lot.

said by meeeeeeeeee:

Oh Yeah... they ALSO did a lot of baking for many local.regional companies, which are now SOL. More jobs gone. Look at the wrappers of your favorites that say "Interstate Brands". Yep, was baked by Hostess... it's gone.

Again, the primary reason they're gone is people don't want what they're selling. Hostess was on the skids before the latest union/management dust up and the reasons for that aren't going away.

As far as jobs and what not; I welcome ex-Hostess employees to the real world that most people live in, with all it's uncertainties and challenges.

Weaning from the protective teat of Gov/Unions is difficult but I have faith they'll learn to stand/walk/run/thrive without it.
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.


fatness
subtle
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join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14

1 recommendation

reply to meeeeeeeeee

said by meeeeeeeeee:

18,500 jobs have gone poof! Forever gone.

That's not generally what happens. Hostess closes shop, they don't make their products, other products are purchased instead of Hostess products creating increased demand and other jobs. People don't start eating less junk food because one particular company closes up. The demand for junk food remains, they just buy other products instead.
--
my pants are parched and thirsty

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
reply to kdhamann

I don't eat Twinkies but I did eat Columbo bread. All gone now.



dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

1 recommendation

reply to meeeeeeeeee

So basically they offered the union everything but what they asked for!?



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to CXM_Splicer

They have already been making concessions and been getting screwed over. They were tired of it, it's been going on for nearly 10 years.

I'm sure they hope someone will buy it and run a proper operation, but it maybe most of them are out of jobs. Still when you push people too far this is what happens.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

2 recommendations

I read an interesting story in my local paper. One of the union guys was complaining about how he USED to make $80,000 a year with full bennies and a PENSION and now he only makes $60,000. $60,000 a year to deliver TWINKIES??!! And He was COMPLAINING??!!

Then of course, there were the ridiculous work rules established by the unions. Different "brands" required different drivers and trucks so that if one store sold Wonder Bread and Twinkies, both would have to be delivered in separate trucks. Why? Would the Wonder Bread fight with the Twinkies in the back of the truck?

I think there's plenty of blame to go around on this one. You can't realistically expect to be paid huge amounts more than your job is worth and have the company survive. No one is going to pay $75 for a Twinkie so you can live large.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.



Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
reply to CXM_Splicer

Your American icon will remain on sale in Canada.

Go ahead, make a run for the border.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.



Blogger
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reply to pnh102

said by pnh102:

This is how unions for airlines operate... they give back benefits when times are bad and they fight hard for benefits when times are good. The company stays in business and the employees get paid. Would the BCTGM giving in saved the company? Nobody will know now, but as someone who took a pay cut as opposed to losing my job, I'd definitely have taken the pay cut.

Permit me to append to that thought. A long-time friend of mine is a 767 Captain for Delta Airlines. He hired on with them about 25 years ago.

Some years back Delta told their employees in general but I am referring specifically to the pilots and their union that they needed to make serious salary cutback consideration to save the company from filing a BK and going under. Eventually the pilots gave up 35-40 percent of the salary!

A couple of years later Delta filed a BK anyway. The resulting BK emergence ended up with including the previous 35-40 percent pay cut an additional pay cut to bring the total cut to 50 percent. Plus, wait for it, the pilots entire pension plan was forfeited or liquidated or however you want word it the pilots lost it. I haven't talked to him for a while but unless something dramatic has changed when my friend retires he gets no pension.

So when talking about unions there is more than one story and there is no such thing as stereotype union or mindset of unions.