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meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 edit
reply to CXM_Splicer

Re: No more Hostess Twinkies for a while

said by CXM_Splicer:

Actually, the way I heard it, they had already given concessions three years ago in another bankruptcy claim. The new management was asking for further concessions while the last CEO got a big fat bonus and left the company. The workers weren't willing to sacrifice anymore but I highly doubt they intentionally wanted to close the company.

Hostess got caught in a tug-of-war of greed.

Yes they had already given concessions for three years, but in this particular case, management was trying to keep the goose alive. The retail price of their products had DOUBLED over the last two years. I, as a consumer who used to regularly enjoy their products, stopped buying them entirely. I couldn't AFFORD THEM! I was NOT alone.

The company offered the unions a 25% stake in the company, a seat on the Board of directors, and MANY OTHER concessions. Rather than teaming up with the company for the good of BOTH, the UNIONS chose to strike and drive the company OUT OF BUSINESS. This is one of those RARE cases where the Company really tried.

18,500 jobs have gone poof! Forever gone. Are those employees better off now? I understand that good jobs are plentiful... so it's a great time to be greedy. THOSE jobs are gone.

It's the old monkey trap. Small hole in a coconut tied to a tree. Monkey reaches in to grab some coconut, makes a fist, and can't get the hand out the hole. Is it smart enough to relax the fist and let the coconut meat go? Nope. Neither were the union employees.
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Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
said by meeeeeeeee :

Yes they had already given concessions for three years, but in this particular case, management was trying to keep the goose alive.

I agree, in the end, the union could have made massive concessions to try and bring the company back from the death plunge. Maybe they could have saved the company and maybe they couldn't have. Realistically, who is going to take the wheel when someone else has pushed the plane to within a few feet of the ground and it is pointed straight down?

Giving a union a stake in the company and a seat on the board of directors is a great thing... companies should be doing it NOW, before they get into trouble. And by 'union' I mean the workers standing together, not their often corrupt leaders. As long as there remains an adversarial relationship between management and labor, you will have an inefficient system with a tendency to crash. Labor should be treated as the business partners they really are.

You can't beat the goose to within an inch of its life then rush it to the vet.


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY
said by CXM_Splicer:

You can't beat the goose to within an inch of its life then rush it to the vet.

We've talked before and I know you're a reasonable and intelligent person, so to you... this goes without saying. It's a two way street. You can't beat the goose to within an inch of its life and complain you're being given a nearly dead goose. I think had reasonable people like you and I had been running things...We'd have a healthy, happy goose.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
reply to CXM_Splicer
said by CXM_Splicer:

I agree, in the end, the union could have made massive concessions to try and bring the company back from the death plunge. Maybe they could have saved the company and maybe they couldn't have. Realistically, who is going to take the wheel when someone else has pushed the plane to within a few feet of the ground and it is pointed straight down?

Don't forget that the other union which represented Hostess workers, the Teamsters, agreed to concessions, and they were practically begging the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers' International Union (BCTGM) to do the same.

This is how unions for airlines operate... they give back benefits when times are bad and they fight hard for benefits when times are good. The company stays in business and the employees get paid. Would the BCTGM giving in saved the company? Nobody will know now, but as someone who took a pay cut as opposed to losing my job, I'd definitely have taken the pay cut.
--
USA 2012 - the mooches won.


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
seems it wasn't just about a pay cut. Kind of a worst case scenario for everyone but the creditors as usual. The unions argument was about pension funding more than pay.

»management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/···ankrupt/


fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14

1 recommendation

reply to meeeeeeeeee
said by meeeeeeeeee:

18,500 jobs have gone poof! Forever gone.

That's not generally what happens. Hostess closes shop, they don't make their products, other products are purchased instead of Hostess products creating increased demand and other jobs. People don't start eating less junk food because one particular company closes up. The demand for junk food remains, they just buy other products instead.
--
my pants are parched and thirsty


dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to meeeeeeeeee
So basically they offered the union everything but what they asked for!?


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to CXM_Splicer
They have already been making concessions and been getting screwed over. They were tired of it, it's been going on for nearly 10 years.

I'm sure they hope someone will buy it and run a proper operation, but it maybe most of them are out of jobs. Still when you push people too far this is what happens.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

2 recommendations

I read an interesting story in my local paper. One of the union guys was complaining about how he USED to make $80,000 a year with full bennies and a PENSION and now he only makes $60,000. $60,000 a year to deliver TWINKIES??!! And He was COMPLAINING??!!

Then of course, there were the ridiculous work rules established by the unions. Different "brands" required different drivers and trucks so that if one store sold Wonder Bread and Twinkies, both would have to be delivered in separate trucks. Why? Would the Wonder Bread fight with the Twinkies in the back of the truck?

I think there's plenty of blame to go around on this one. You can't realistically expect to be paid huge amounts more than your job is worth and have the company survive. No one is going to pay $75 for a Twinkie so you can live large.
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Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.


Blogger
Jedi Poster
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1 recommendation

reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:

This is how unions for airlines operate... they give back benefits when times are bad and they fight hard for benefits when times are good. The company stays in business and the employees get paid. Would the BCTGM giving in saved the company? Nobody will know now, but as someone who took a pay cut as opposed to losing my job, I'd definitely have taken the pay cut.

Permit me to append to that thought. A long-time friend of mine is a 767 Captain for Delta Airlines. He hired on with them about 25 years ago.

Some years back Delta told their employees in general but I am referring specifically to the pilots and their union that they needed to make serious salary cutback consideration to save the company from filing a BK and going under. Eventually the pilots gave up 35-40 percent of the salary!

A couple of years later Delta filed a BK anyway. The resulting BK emergence ended up with including the previous 35-40 percent pay cut an additional pay cut to bring the total cut to 50 percent. Plus, wait for it, the pilots entire pension plan was forfeited or liquidated or however you want word it the pilots lost it. I haven't talked to him for a while but unless something dramatic has changed when my friend retires he gets no pension.

So when talking about unions there is more than one story and there is no such thing as stereotype union or mindset of unions.