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antdude
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Saudi Arabia Implements Electronic Tracking System for Women

»www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no···ts-women from »www.hardocp.com/news/2012/11/24/···r_women/

"Saudi Arabia criticised over text alerts tracking women's movements

Male 'guardians' receive text message whenever women leave country under new system..."
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Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.



Dustyn
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Wow. That is some kind of crazy. And although I'll admit I do not understand that way of life, I don't think I'd want to either.



siljaline
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reply to antdude

Nasty stuff, antdude See Profile
Squirted this out on Twitter the other day:
»venturebeat.com/2012/11/22/saudi···by-text/
Edit:
Also at RawStory:
»www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/22/s···r-women/



jaykaykay
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reply to antdude

In that country and others in the Middle East, women are less than nothing. They are treated as baby machines, cooks, and all kinds of things to wait on men, but like people/individuals? No! That is exactly the kind of thing that the radicals of those countries would like to put upon free countries such as the US. I don't find this unusual for them at all, sad to say. (end of rant)



StuartMW
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The US was founded on the idea of individual rights regardless of race, gender etc. It was the first, and so far, the only country in history to do so and look at the results. The Arab countries, along with many others, have been a mixture of tribal and collectivist societies and look where they are. If Saudi Arabia didn't have oil (and they nationalized those oil wells) they'd still be riding camels in the desert.

However in today's PC dominated world we're supposed to consider their culture just as good and valid as our ours. I don't and won't.
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



dandelion
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reply to antdude

I'm sure a lot of this can be under the auspices of "we are protecting you". Beware any "protection" that can invade privacy and be a simple excuse for domination.


Kearnstd
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

The US was founded on the idea of individual rights regardless of race, gender etc. It was the first, and so far, the only country in history to do so and look at the results. The Arab countries, along with many others, have been a mixture of tribal and collectivist societies and look where they are. If Saudi Arabia didn't have oil (and they nationalized those oil wells) they'd still be riding camels in the desert.

However in today's PC dominated world we're supposed to consider their culture just as good and valid as our ours. I don't and won't.

I think they where pretty horrified to see women driving HUMVEEs during the first golf war. as well as flying aircraft like the A-10 Warthog. I mean that must have had their men hiding in the closet for days at the mere thought of a female flying an aircraft that could level a city block and still not be out of ammo!
--
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OZO
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reply to antdude

That comes from their radical religion... Drop that and there would be nothing like that left or course.
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



DownTheShore
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More likely from the continued precedence and protection of patriarchal and misogynistic attitudes of their culture.

Women are second class citizens in most religions, not just Islam.




Crowbar1

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This is one of the reasons most people don't want them here , their values and beliefs are incompatible with ours . Now they want to control women like micro chipped animals ...


OZO
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reply to DownTheShore

said by DownTheShore:

Women are second class citizens in most religions, not just Islam.

And I was talking about religions in general, not about Islam only...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


La Luna
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reply to antdude

There is no security or privacy for women who live with Arab men, only fear and oppression.



DrStrange
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reply to antdude

This is Wahabbist Islam in action. The US and others keep these radicals in power by buying their oil. The minute we get off oil [or start producing enough to supply ourselves; we're producing a lot more oil than we were a few years ago and with reduced demand we're on track to be oil-independent around 2020], we should cut them off and encourage moderates [anybody except al-Qa'ida is more moderate, including most Islamist elements] in the country to depose the house of Saud.

Normally, I don't condone meddling in another country's affairs, but since we put them in power in the first place I suppose it's only right that we take them out and prevent even more extreme elements [remember where bin Laden came from?] from coming to power.



goalieskates
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reply to antdude

Which clearly demonstrates why we don't want Sharia law here.


dave
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

However in today's PC dominated world we're supposed to consider their culture just as good and valid as our ours. I don't and won't.

That's your knee-jerk reflex showing. I likely have the sort of viewpoint that you'd call "PC", and I can assure you that people who think my way tend not to shy from calling a repressive totalitarian theocratic monarchy by name.

Us liberals are the ones that tend to take The Handmaid's Tale as a serious warning, after all.


StuartMW
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said by dave:

...I can assure you that people who think my way tend not to shy from calling a repressive totalitarian theocratic monarchy by name.

The US gummint won't. Neither will many others.

The whole point of Political Correctness (PC) is to limit speech. Can't have people calling things what they are. It's analogous to NewSpeak in Orwell's 1984 and has had the same result.
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Link Logger
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reply to Crowbar1

said by Crowbar1:

This is one of the reasons most people don't want them here , their values and beliefs are incompatible with ours . Now they want to control women like micro chipped animals ...

I don't really care what they do in their country, that's their deal, and if you basically take 50% (or in most cases more then 50%) of your population out of the game, well then your position in the world is likely to remain in the lower half of productivity, progressiveness, innovation, business, etc countries in the world.

Now of course if they move to or visit a country with different laws/rights/etc then I expect them to be subject to those laws/rights/etc, otherwise they simply shouldn't go there.

I don't go to some countries in the middle east because my relationship and such with my wife would be in conflict with their laws, so we don't.

Blake
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dave
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said by Link Logger:

well then your position in the world is likely to remain in the lower half of productivity, progressiveness, innovation, business, etc countries in the world.

Except that they have oil and thus money.

harald

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reply to antdude

Not that I disagree with earlier posts, but you should know that if you live in Latin America as an ex-pat, and your wife attempts to travel to the US with the kids to visit the grandparents, she's going to need your written permission.


dave
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reply to StuartMW

I think that the government not calling out the saudi regime on human rights violations is more to do with oil and diplomacy than with some imaginary "political correctness".



EUS
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reply to harald

said by harald:

Not that I disagree with earlier posts, but you should know that if you live in Latin America as an ex-pat, and your wife attempts to travel to the US with the kids to visit the grandparents, she's going to need your written permission.

? When my wife or I travel alone with our children, and we want to enter into the US from Canada with our children, we require a letter of permission from the other parent to do so. Been this way for a looooong time.
Still a far cry from being an e-tagged system for one sex only.
--
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Link Logger
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reply to dave

said by dave:

said by Link Logger:

well then your position in the world is likely to remain in the lower half of productivity, progressiveness, innovation, business, etc countries in the world.

Except that they have oil and thus money.

They only have money because someone buys their oil and because of the world's addiction to oil, they have lots of money (ie the world's addiction to oil is stronger then its dislike for what they do). Addictions are rarely good as they typically remove your ability to make a choice.

Blake
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EdmundGerber

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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

The US was founded on the idea of individual rights regardless of race, gender etc. It was the first, and so far, the only country in history to do so and look at the results.

What fucking arrogance. We have more freedoms here in Canada, for fucks sake. And the UK and Scandinavian countries are above you as well. Actually - most of Europe.

Fucking yanks - remember slavery? Jesus H Christ....


StuartMW
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said by EdmundGerber:

We have more freedoms here in Canada, for fucks sake. And the UK and Scandinavian countries are above you as well. Actually - most of Europe.

Well not to worry. The US is doing its best to become Western Europe. It has turned its back on its founding (what I explicitly referred to) principles.
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Blackbird
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reply to EdmundGerber

said by EdmundGerber:

... F**king yanks - remember slavery? Jesus H Ch**st....

No nation in the Western world has clean hands regarding slavery, not the US, not the UK, not the French, and not Canada. While Britain ended her own importation of African slaves in 1807, the US in 1808, Britain was more than willing to profit handsomely off the slave trade into other lands and especially her colonies and islands in the Caribbean until 1833. The holding of slaves (including the tactic of redefining them as 'indentured servants') was still ultimately permitted within the empire until 1838 (including Canada - read the writings of Afua Cooper for insight into that chapter of Canadian history). In the US, the Northern states abolished slavery between 1780 and 1800. The Southern states, whose economies were more directly affected, did not accept abolition of slavery until the Civil War ended it in 1865.

The more southern the latitude under the British empire (and elsewhere), the longer slavery tended to persist and be more firmly held onto, largely because it was so foundational to the plantation economies upon which the more southern-located colonies were built and which demanded cheap (or free) labor for their profit. One could argue that Canada's northern latitude had as much or more to do with her willingness to turn against slavery as any inherent enlightened nature of her citizens. Ditto for the US Northern states.

None of our nations are without guilt in the reprehensible practice of slavery... so let's not throw stones.
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StuartMW
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To add to that many of the US Founding Fathers knew very well of the contradiction between slavery and the Declaration Of Independence and The Constitution but had to acquiesce on that point in order to get the southern states to join the union. That contradiction was resolved with the Civil War.

There are still countries (e.g. in Africa) that practice slavery in some form or another. It may not be as organized as it was 150 years ago but it still exits. In fact one could make a good case that Saudi Arabia's treatment of women is a form of slavery.
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


dave
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

The US is doing its best to become Western Europe.

It was my impression that the US is trying hard to become a theocracy, in particular with respect to the canonical 'old white guys' telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

(I feel free to use the pejorative term 'old white guys' because I are one.)

Really, this "my country is more free than yours" pissing match is pretty silly, don't you think? And it trivializes the actual topic.


DownTheShore
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reply to EUS

said by EUS:

said by harald:

Not that I disagree with earlier posts, but you should know that if you live in Latin America as an ex-pat, and your wife attempts to travel to the US with the kids to visit the grandparents, she's going to need your written permission.

? When my wife or I travel alone with our children, and we want to enter into the US from Canada with our children, we require a letter of permission from the other parent to do so. Been this way for a looooong time.
Still a far cry from being an e-tagged system for one sex only.

I think this might have more to do with the problem of estranged/divorced parents "kidnapping" their children in custody disputes and taking them out of the country. It probably legally absolves the governments of the countries involved from complicity, in any potential lawsuits that may result.
--
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I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.



goalieskates
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reply to dave

said by dave:

Really, this "my country is more free than yours" pissing match is pretty silly, don't you think?

Agree.

And while various countries bought slaves, let's remember Africans were the ones selling other Africans into slavery.

Plenty of blame to go around, but I don't subscribe to feeling guilt for something you personally didn't do. For most countries it happened years ago to people long dead. For the women of Saudi Arabia, however, it's happening now - that's the difference.


ashrc4
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reply to DownTheShore

said by DownTheShore:

said by EUS:

said by harald:

Not that I disagree with earlier posts, but you should know that if you live in Latin America as an ex-pat, and your wife attempts to travel to the US with the kids to visit the grandparents, she's going to need your written permission.

? When my wife or I travel alone with our children, and we want to enter into the US from Canada with our children, we require a letter of permission from the other parent to do so. Been this way for a looooong time.
Still a far cry from being an e-tagged system for one sex only.

I think this might have more to do with the problem of estranged/divorced parents "kidnapping" their children in custody disputes and taking them out of the country. It probably legally absolves the governments of the countries involved from complicity, in any potential lawsuits that may result.

For me it's a lot more simple, some religions don't perceive women as equal....period.
And the followers with the vote/power want to be perceived as respectful of religious doctrine .... For the uneducated this is O.K. No concept of yin and yang here.
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