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StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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Galt's Gulch
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reply to jaykaykay

Re: Saudi Arabia Implements Electronic Tracking System for Women

The US was founded on the idea of individual rights regardless of race, gender etc. It was the first, and so far, the only country in history to do so and look at the results. The Arab countries, along with many others, have been a mixture of tribal and collectivist societies and look where they are. If Saudi Arabia didn't have oil (and they nationalized those oil wells) they'd still be riding camels in the desert.

However in today's PC dominated world we're supposed to consider their culture just as good and valid as our ours. I don't and won't.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

Kearnstd
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said by StuartMW:

The US was founded on the idea of individual rights regardless of race, gender etc. It was the first, and so far, the only country in history to do so and look at the results. The Arab countries, along with many others, have been a mixture of tribal and collectivist societies and look where they are. If Saudi Arabia didn't have oil (and they nationalized those oil wells) they'd still be riding camels in the desert.

However in today's PC dominated world we're supposed to consider their culture just as good and valid as our ours. I don't and won't.

I think they where pretty horrified to see women driving HUMVEEs during the first golf war. as well as flying aircraft like the A-10 Warthog. I mean that must have had their men hiding in the closet for days at the mere thought of a female flying an aircraft that could level a city block and still not be out of ammo!
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

dave
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reply to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

However in today's PC dominated world we're supposed to consider their culture just as good and valid as our ours. I don't and won't.

That's your knee-jerk reflex showing. I likely have the sort of viewpoint that you'd call "PC", and I can assure you that people who think my way tend not to shy from calling a repressive totalitarian theocratic monarchy by name.

Us liberals are the ones that tend to take The Handmaid's Tale as a serious warning, after all.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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Galt's Gulch
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said by dave:

...I can assure you that people who think my way tend not to shy from calling a repressive totalitarian theocratic monarchy by name.

The US gummint won't. Neither will many others.

The whole point of Political Correctness (PC) is to limit speech. Can't have people calling things what they are. It's analogous to NewSpeak in Orwell's 1984 and has had the same result.
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

dave
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I think that the government not calling out the saudi regime on human rights violations is more to do with oil and diplomacy than with some imaginary "political correctness".

EdmundGerber

join:2010-01-04
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reply to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

The US was founded on the idea of individual rights regardless of race, gender etc. It was the first, and so far, the only country in history to do so and look at the results.

What fucking arrogance. We have more freedoms here in Canada, for fucks sake. And the UK and Scandinavian countries are above you as well. Actually - most of Europe.

Fucking yanks - remember slavery? Jesus H Christ....


StuartMW
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said by EdmundGerber:

We have more freedoms here in Canada, for fucks sake. And the UK and Scandinavian countries are above you as well. Actually - most of Europe.

Well not to worry. The US is doing its best to become Western Europe. It has turned its back on its founding (what I explicitly referred to) principles.
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Blackbird
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reply to EdmundGerber
said by EdmundGerber:

... F**king yanks - remember slavery? Jesus H Ch**st....

No nation in the Western world has clean hands regarding slavery, not the US, not the UK, not the French, and not Canada. While Britain ended her own importation of African slaves in 1807, the US in 1808, Britain was more than willing to profit handsomely off the slave trade into other lands and especially her colonies and islands in the Caribbean until 1833. The holding of slaves (including the tactic of redefining them as 'indentured servants') was still ultimately permitted within the empire until 1838 (including Canada - read the writings of Afua Cooper for insight into that chapter of Canadian history). In the US, the Northern states abolished slavery between 1780 and 1800. The Southern states, whose economies were more directly affected, did not accept abolition of slavery until the Civil War ended it in 1865.

The more southern the latitude under the British empire (and elsewhere), the longer slavery tended to persist and be more firmly held onto, largely because it was so foundational to the plantation economies upon which the more southern-located colonies were built and which demanded cheap (or free) labor for their profit. One could argue that Canada's northern latitude had as much or more to do with her willingness to turn against slavery as any inherent enlightened nature of her citizens. Ditto for the US Northern states.

None of our nations are without guilt in the reprehensible practice of slavery... so let's not throw stones.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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To add to that many of the US Founding Fathers knew very well of the contradiction between slavery and the Declaration Of Independence and The Constitution but had to acquiesce on that point in order to get the southern states to join the union. That contradiction was resolved with the Civil War.

There are still countries (e.g. in Africa) that practice slavery in some form or another. It may not be as organized as it was 150 years ago but it still exits. In fact one could make a good case that Saudi Arabia's treatment of women is a form of slavery.
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

dave
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reply to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

The US is doing its best to become Western Europe.

It was my impression that the US is trying hard to become a theocracy, in particular with respect to the canonical 'old white guys' telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

(I feel free to use the pejorative term 'old white guys' because I are one.)

Really, this "my country is more free than yours" pissing match is pretty silly, don't you think? And it trivializes the actual topic.


goalieskates
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land of big

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said by dave:

Really, this "my country is more free than yours" pissing match is pretty silly, don't you think?

Agree.

And while various countries bought slaves, let's remember Africans were the ones selling other Africans into slavery.

Plenty of blame to go around, but I don't subscribe to feeling guilt for something you personally didn't do. For most countries it happened years ago to people long dead. For the women of Saudi Arabia, however, it's happening now - that's the difference.


carpetshark3
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reply to dave
said by dave:

said by StuartMW:

The US is doing its best to become Western Europe.

It was my impression that the US is trying hard to become a theocracy, in particular with respect to the canonical 'old white guys' telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

(I feel free to use the pejorative term 'old white guys' because I are one.)

Really, this "my country is more free than yours" pissing match is pretty silly, don't you think? And it trivializes the actual topic.

Thank you. I fail to see some of the differences between Sharia law and what these people call Christianity except the name of the god.
Both are extremely repressive.


DrStrange
Technically feasible
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West Hartford, CT
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Absolutely. Except that they really are the same.

If you look at it from an outsider's point of view, they're two different sects of the same religion.