dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
32
share rss forum feed

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to resa1983

Re: CNOC Files w/ CRTC Against Rogers

Here's Rogers's final response to TN28-30. They sent it to me directly for once.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

If you has signed up for UBB stuff you would get everything still.I get everything for this rogers tariff too from that.Well except from CNOC who seem incapable of sending to anyone but the CRTC


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

I didn't sign up during the UBB process to get the filings
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



Tabernak

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

6. This argument ignores the fact that 18, 28 and 32 Mbps speed services will remain in the market for existing retail and TPIA end-users and that 25, 35 and 45 Mbps are new speeds.

This is irrelevant. Their customers are getting it as a speed upgrade and so should wholesale customers. The "grandfathered" speeds are only there for non-doc-3 modem users who haven't spent the money to upgrade their modems yet. THAT IS ALL.

But Rogers this as not a speed upgrade at all (which is indeed what it is per their marketing material and ad-injections to their own customers, as Rssa pointed out):
7. ... “determines that if a cable carrier introduces a new retail Internet service speed, it is to file, at the same time, proposed revisions to its TPIA tariff to include this new speed offering, with a supporting cost study.”

In other words, Rogers is pretending the old tiers are their as an old offering instead of what it actually is, a grace period for people to upgrade to Doc-3 modems. In other words, they are still claiming it's not a speed upgrade as their marketing material clearly shows.

What a joke.

Then Rogers goes on to state that the cost increases because it's Doc-3 pricing and not Doc-2. But they again negate to mention their own customers are not getting the cost increase. They are instead getting a "free upgrade". Then they again play this as saying CNOC is trying to pretend Doc-3 costing doesn't exist.

Then Rogers mentions the new costs are based on policy 703, but negates to mention these prices are all over-priced and on revue.

In other words Rogers is saying, "Hurry force the over-priced costs on wholesale before they get knocked down so we can have a competitive advantage for a few months before changes occur".

In #13, Rogers then states the flawed 703 costs that will be re-reviewed, are correct and states we have already proved Doc-3 prices are higher. Yet again negates to say they are giving it free to their own customers.

LOL Then Rogers states CNOC lives in denial. LOL

Rogers then states in a round about way that previous price hikes Rogers customers got were applied to these upgrades so customers already paid for it and indeed paying for it now.

So what does this mean? Rogers just stated that Doc-2 customers (their own customers) should be applying to the CCTS because they are paying for a Doc-3 modem with Doc-3 speeds yet don't have it. Too bad for them. Can of worms there... Where is the Consumers Union when you need them?

Rogers then goes on playing the system in regards to the flawed 703 policy and what was stated there with flawed costs.

The who thing is a game.

Man, what a circle of bullshit.


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

said by Tabernak :

So what does this mean? Rogers just stated that Doc-2 customers (their own customers) should be applying to the CCTS because they are paying for a Doc-3 modem with Doc-3 speeds yet don't have it.

The prices don't include modem rental/purchase. So no, Doc2 customers aren't paying for Doc3 modems. Speeds, though - yes.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23

said by bt:

The prices don't include modem rental/purchase. So no, Doc2 customers aren't paying for Doc3 modems. Speeds, though - yes.

One could probably argue that DOCSIS 3.0 is cheaper than DOCSIS 2.0 for them, since I'd imagine it's impossible to buy D2 only CMTS's at this point and with D3 they have the option to use channel bonding to add more capacity to a node vs with D2 and single channel contention that they have to more often physically split the node to reduce congestion. I'd go further and say this is also why they want D2 off their network and are continuing to decertify older D2 models. It's hard to imagine that D3 profiles themselves are more expensive in a network that is already fully D3 capable. Yes the CPE's are more expensive, but this is of zero impact to the cable company.


hm

@videotron.ca

I think the 703 policy (and I could be wrong in policy number) stated that Cable Co's had a higher cost of maintenance, or a higher cost in general. So bumping costs due to upgrades was acceptable to the CRTC in that policy decision.

I do believe this is what Rogers states (I could be wrong here). Sure there might be checks and balances that equal it all out when up and running. But, there was an investment cost nonetheless.

So is there a direct cost to Rogers to upgrade to D-3 and to aggregated? Of course. But it seems higher costs are only going to you and Rogers is playing games with the costs they say they put on their customers, yet in the same marketing breath call it free.

And also they keep referring to the "correct costs" from an interim order where they know costs are going to be reduced anyhow. So they know they are trying to charge a dollar amount that isn't correct and too high.

Or am I wrong here?

So let's say for sake of argument CNOC loses this and the CRTC accepts Rogers filing at face value.

Let's say, just as an example, you have to charge 2$ more across the board for all CNOC Rogers customers due to this (Just an example with fictitious numbers). Let's say all CNOC Rogers customers total 50,000 users.

In the previous recent ruling where they lowered your costs, the CRTC clearly stated that CNOC did not demand a retroactive refund should costs drop due to one of the interim orders. So CNOC lost out on this.

Don't you think it's in your best interest right now with your next filing that you should state:
Should the commission accept this cost increase at face value, and should the costing which is under review be lowered, CNOC demands a retroactive refund.

I mean 2$ for 50,000 people isn't a lot. But it pays your lawyer fee's and beer for the next round.

Point number 2:
I stated up above:
"... Sure there might be checks and balances that equal it all out when up and running. But, there was an investment cost nonetheless."

Didn't the CRTC also state at one point (I forget where now) that investments to keep a network running should be continuous without the need to have the public shoulder the burden (ie. what people pay now should already cover this). Pretty sure They stated something like this when they were all throttling due to Rogers and Bell not investing in their own network to keep up with demand. Or am I wrong again?

What Rogers is doing, going aggregated and going D-3 is a natural evolution of their network to keep up with demand, as I see it. It's do or die. Are they to keep it in that decrepit mode? I don't think they have a choice but to do it. So does that mean you should be burdened with the cost of their natural network evolution that should have been done 5 years ago? Seems they are playing catch-up to what started the throttling mess.

I mean, all this congestion and clearing up congestion on nodes and what not by going D-3 and aggregated would be normal network maintenance that was never performed going back to the throttling days. Videotron never had these issues. Videotron didn't let their network die a slow death like what Rogers did. So should you be paying for this?

But I could be wrong. Not like I study CRTC policies word for word.