dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
16
share rss forum feed


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to PhoenixDown

Re: Verizon is using Sandy as an excuse to force people to FiOS

said by PhoenixDown:

1- fiber has been used to provide voice service for decades. The reliability of it in actual working conditions has been proven.

Okay, we're conflating two different things when we talk about reliability. Let's talk about availability and maintenance. We can agree that fiber costs less to maintenance and we should also be able to agree that POTS has higher availability. The brand new shiny FiOS network is less available by design.

Reliability as it's been used here has meant at least two different things. From how often the customer experiences outages and under what conditions (me) to how often and how much money must go into maintaining the network (others).

said by PhoenixDown:

2- regulated voice (over fiber / FIOS) is =not= VoIP. Customers choosing regulated service plug into the same switches as the copper lines.

And you still end up with an ONT and the inherent unreliability of the network during a power failure. FiOS Digital Voice calls end up going over the same switches as POTS does too most of the time and vice versa. Technically it's a silly distinction since these services are necessarily transparently interoperable. Legally it's a different story.

Show me a Freedom Essentials fiber phone line that's plugged into an electromechanical switch in some CO and I'll agree that the services are truly different and that POTS truly has never evolved.

said by PhoenixDown:

You keep arguing about how necessary true pots line service is -- but if you read the news topics here, people have been cutting out pots lines for years. If you read posts in this very forum people are screaming that pots is too expensive. Copper prices are at all time high's -- people are dying in thier attempts to steal it. At some point there jus aren't going to be enough customers wanting the service for companies to continue offering it.

I'm not arguing that POTS is necessary at all. I'm arguing that without a suitable life safety equivalent we should hang on to it.

Show me the high availability replacement. I'm all for progress.

McBane

join:2008-08-22
Plano, TX

So nothing00, would you pay 3x or more what your currently paying for FIOS to keep your copper?



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

said by McBane:

So nothing00, would you pay 3x or more what your currently paying for FIOS to keep your copper?

I don't want to "keep my copper". I'm not nostalgic about and dreams of it don't keep me warm at night. I could care less about what the underlying technology is as long as the public has a high availability communications network available.

The argument seems to be, "FiOS does cool things therefore we can ditch the life safety requirements for our future critical infrastructure!"

And yes, I do agree burying power and telecommunications lines should be a priority for areas that are prone to storm related outages. And yes, I'm absolutely willing to pay my share to do it.

»mashable.com/2012/11/21/sandy-fcc-outages/


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

1 recommendation

reply to nothing00

Nothing00,

This is called changing the argument and its various forms. You are debating things that have nothing to do with your original premise.

I see no further reason for anyone to respond to this thread since the points raised have been addressed ad nausem and have so far not been refuted.

Fiber is not new, period. it supplanted copper a long time ago and I would even argue its more prevalent now than copper in dense population areas. You just aren't seeing it as other posters have noted. It beats copper in all cases including your cost version of reliability.

Fiber is HA. Fiber is used everywhere possible due to its superior HA characteristics over copper, just ask the military and banking systems for them copper is the option of last resort.

Fiber requires less power to transmit more data over longer distances than copper could ever possibly hope to. Ever wonder why there aren't anymore trans-oceanic copper lines anymore?

Copper is a dying medium and it will continue to die off as it should.

Further wireless is making many a fiber plant slowly obsolete as well. Just because your Nan doesn't use a cellular phone doesn't negate it as an increasingly reliable and required part of the national infrastructure. Wireless companies have been shoring up their wireless plants to reach HA levels of 99% or better.

Copper is becoming 3rd tier service for people and its becoming 3rd tier in terms of HA as well.



nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to nothing00

said by nothing00:

Show me a Freedom Essentials fiber phone line that's plugged into an electromechanical switch in some CO and I'll agree that the services are truly different and that POTS truly has never evolved.

FiOS Freedom Essentials still uses a class 5 CO switch, such as a 5ESS, DMS-100, GTD5 or EWSD....FE can also use a CS2K Softswitch.


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to danclan

said by danclan:

Nothing00,

This is called changing the argument and its various forms. You are debating things that have nothing to do with your original premise.

I see no further reason for anyone to respond to this thread since the points raised have been addressed ad nausem and have so far not been refuted.

Thanks. Since the master has spoken we'll all go away.

Which argument has shifted?

There are two points to my argument:
- FiOS is not high availability - by design as opposed to the technology it replaces
- Verizon has shifted costs of running and maintaining the network to the consumer (for voice)

Your argument on the other hand is "fiber is great and fiber deployments can be highly available so therefore FiOS is too". Bologna! Just because it's fiber, the 10G fiber in my house that my dog occasionally walks over can't be called reliable.

Should be crystal for you. Everything else you wrote isn't very relevant.


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to nycdave

said by nycdave:

FiOS Freedom Essentials still uses a class 5 CO switch, such as a 5ESS, DMS-100, GTD5 or EWSD....FE can also use a CS2K Softswitch.

Cool stuff Dave.


CGMason14
Nj Roaddog

join:2002-07-22
Mountainside, NJ
reply to danclan

said by danclan:

Further wireless is making many a fiber plant slowly obsolete as well. Just because your Nan doesn't use a cellular phone doesn't negate it as an increasingly reliable and required part of the national infrastructure. Wireless companies have been shoring up their wireless plants to reach HA levels of 99% or better.

Wireless will never supplant a fiber plant in bandwidth or value, there just isn't enough spectrum to support it. I don't expect to see an uncapped consistent 35/35Mbit LTE connection any time soon. Plus the cell phone voice network pretty much collapsed the day after Sandy hit. Data worked for the most part, but voice service was dead. If the lines to your house didn't get knocked out, you still had POTS.

Whats funny is that I had an actual copper pair (actually 2 since we have 2 lines) direct from the CO prior to switching to FiOS in 2007. That same CO maintained an electromechanical crossbar switch well into the late 90s! It was obvious too, after dialing there was a short pause then a kr-klunk when the call connected and started ringing. The lines were never truly silent either, you could hear faint signaling tones and voices while dialing numbers.


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

said by CGMason14:

Wireless will never supplant a fiber plant in bandwidth or value, there just isn't enough spectrum to support it. I don't expect to see an uncapped consistent 35/35Mbit LTE connection any time soon. Plus the cell phone voice network pretty much collapsed the day after Sandy hit. Data worked for the most part, but voice service was dead. If the lines to your house didn't get knocked out, you still had POTS.

Whats funny is that I had an actual copper pair (actually 2 since we have 2 lines) direct from the CO prior to switching to FiOS in 2007. That same CO maintained an electromechanical crossbar switch well into the late 90s! It was obvious too, after dialing there was a short pause then a kr-klunk when the call connected and started ringing. The lines were never truly silent either, you could hear faint signaling tones and voices while dialing numbers.

Old school CO....but wireless will eventually take over...it's not going to happen in the next 5 years but 10 years out you should expect there to be fewer people hard wired and decline in wired connections. Its happening already and will continue to accelerate as younger wireless kids age and move out.

Wireless whether we like it or not is the future state of a very large portion of the communications environment Just check out the sheer number of smart phones being purchased in the past 5 years and their growth.

There is AMPLE bandwidth. The issue is really how efficiently its deployed and with what type of radio. The US mobile carriers aren't nearly as efficient as European. I think (hope!) that will improve over the next decade.