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koam
Pink Pecker
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join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone

1 edit

[WIN7] Computer shut down unexpectedly

Click for full size
Event Log
Dell Inspiron laptop Win 7 64-bit

The power cord was disconnected, but the battery was at 80%.

Without warning the screen went black and computer shut down. (As if battery had just been pulled out).

I plugged in power cord before trying to restart. It gave me the same alert screen at bootup that I'd have gotten if the battery had drained and it shut itself down without powering down windows. (black screen with "Start Windows Normally" as the bottom choice) I expected to see that the battery had drained (though I hadn't received any warnings that it was low before shutdown) but was surprised to see battery is at 80%.

I checked the Win Event log and it was critical event code 41, which is the same as on prior occasions where the battery had died. I saw a number of instances of this Event 41 "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly." (Though it never before shut down in the middle of using it...unless it was left on, inadvertently became unplugged, and just drained to a shutdown)

The battery has been OK and I normally use the computer with the power cord plugged in.

So it's the first time it ever just shut itself down before the battery had drained.

Here's a copy of the event log around that critical shutdown event.
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BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
Sounds entirely like a hardware issue since it should have remained on, and I've pulled the power plug from many a laptop while they were running without hardware power failure.


koam
Pink Pecker
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Reviews:
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Thanks. yes I pull the power cord out many times a day while it's running and it keeps on going...just did it 5 times with no problem. this happened while the power cord was already out....not sure why.

Would the other Events around the same time indicate why? I don't understand their meanings.


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

Looking at those errors and your story had me wondering if the LAN (ethernet) chipset was having troubles as well which would point to a motherboard problem.

Might be worth talking to someone local if you can.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



koam
Pink Pecker
Premium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Thanks. Are there any things I can do to check on this through logs or diagnostics?


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to koam
There might be a way to recalibrate the battery. What's the exact model?


koam
Pink Pecker
Premium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Insprion N7010


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to koam
said by koam:

Thanks. Are there any things I can do to check on this through logs or diagnostics?

Before going any further - create a system restore point and reboot just incase there are problems encountered that cause more concern.

Have you updated to the latest drivers off DELL?

The following is possibly suggestive of a router/computer conflict, possible IPv6 conflict, the need for an updated Ethernet driver possibly, hardware failing. There could be a few things.

If you haven't the latest drivers for the Ethernet chipset, download and disconnect from the network while it updates.
»www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/···17-n7010
If you are not sure use the DELL utility on the laptop or the sites detection for drivers.

---------------

For the DHCP, DNS and NetBT errors see the following articles if they persist.

DHCP client event ID 1002: While the link is for sever 2008, I'd see not difference for the network settings for you.
»technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr···10).aspx

DNS client Event ID 1014:
»social.technet.microsoft.com/wik···ent.aspx

NetBT Event ID 6008:
»www.microsoft.com/technet/suppor···rc=NetBT

After checking you have the latest drivers:
First, can you reboot from the computer to the router and see if the errors go away.
Second, Try the DHCP resolve and verify functions in the first link, maybe check if IPv6 can be turned off all together on the router and your computer. Does the errors go away?

These are what I'd look at first before anything else if you have the confidence in your own work.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



izy
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
endless loop
kudos:2
reply to koam
Run the Dell hardware diagnostics. Press F12 at boot to access.


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to koam
I'd suggest you call Dell tech support on this one. Either the battery is dying and the computer is indicating it has more capacity then it really does or some re-calibration effort needs to be taken that Dell might be able to direct you on. A lot of Dell batteries have a test button on them with a series of lights that indicate the charge state. I would suggest if present, you push that when the shut down occurs. If the lights are all out or only one LED lights, then your battery is not as healthy as you would think. In any event chasing other hardware possibilities seems pointless unless you know the battery is healthy. Everything is fine when plugged in... right? In my opinion the only thing going on here is a disconnect between what the computer thinks the battery charge state is and what the actual charge state is. No big worries.


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
I like your KISS (keep it simple silly) response to a lot of your replies here.

Sometimes the basic steps are the fix.


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
Thanks... going to move this thread over to the hardware people, because whatever is wrong here, you probably can't blame on Microsoft.

n_w95482
Premium
join:2005-08-03
Ukiah, CA
reply to koam
To add to the battery calibration, try running HWMonitor. It should give you the wear level as a percentage.

I'm not sure if all of the Dell batteries with built-in power gauges do this (the one on my Inspiron E1705 does), but if yours has the gauge, try holding the button for 3 seconds. A quick press tells you the current charge, while holding it for a few seconds should tell you the wear level (IIRC, 5 lights=40% wear/recommended replacement).
--
KI6RIT


koam
Pink Pecker
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join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
Click for full size
This battery doesn't have LEDs. THanks for the link to HWMonitor.

While that one-time shutdown seemed like it was a battery pull or battery issue, I haven't had much trouble from the battery.

I'll explain more in next post.

Here's the image of HWMonitor screen.
--
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koam
Pink Pecker
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join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
reply to norwegian
Thanks for the link to Dell driver tools. The Dell analyzer only found one driver it recommended.... it was a package for bluetooth (didn't know how to even use the bluetooth before, so thanks.) It didn't find any updates for the Ethernet chipset. I haven't had any further issues with connectivity/DHCP, etc.


koam
Pink Pecker
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Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
reply to izy
I ran the diagnostics F12 at boot and the initial pass ran fine. It then asked me if I wanted to do more memory tests and estimated that it would take 30 mins. It worked along for what seemed like much more than 30 mins....more like 100 mins, but it seemed to be doing the work, with the screen continually updating and the word "Pass" after each group.

When it finally stopped it said Disk Error. The diagnostics seemed to be done, but then..... when trying to boot into Windows, it gave me an error telling me to get my Windows Installation Disk to repair. It would not reboot into windows. It mentioned disk corruption, recommending chkdsk. I used my System Repair Disk. and it booted into Windows.

I had checked and it had already created a System Restore point the night before for a Windows Update overnight. (Note the computer ran all night and did not reboot and I never saw the balloon notification that Windows Updates had been applied in the morning..all my apps were still running in the morning...and all this was before the shutdown event in the OP that came without warning). So I didn't create a new Restore point since there had been one hours earlier.

I created a System Image to an external drive, and backed up files to another external drive.

Since the Windows Repair it has booted into Windows OK and I have not restarted. I'm afraid to do the chkdsk because I think that may worsen the situation. I really don't need this computer to crap out on me right now as it's the only one I have. I hope that the System Image will be of use if the system drive fails.

The hard drive is SSD. Device manager: Hard Drives: 2 items
1) Generic Multi-card USB Device
2) INTEL SSDSA1MH080G1GN

The computer has been working fine. I'm a little afraid to reboot....don't want to get stuck. Also afraid to run diagnostics....solely because I don't want to get stuck without a computer. (When things ease up, I'll geek out on it.) In any case, I hope the system image created after the repair will be of value and not corrupted.

Any ideas of what's going on?
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koam
Pink Pecker
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join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
reply to Kramer
Thanks. See the Hardware Monitor results above.

Please see also the weird situation I had after running diagnostics above.


koam
Pink Pecker
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Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
reply to norwegian
Please see what happened when I ran diagnostics above.

When you say reboot from the computer to the router, what do you mean? (I have power cycled router, modem and other devices in recent days... the router also automatically reboots itself at 4AM daily).

The DHCP client list for the router shows each device with its own IP.

I haven't had the issue of shutdown happen again, though I normally keep it plugged in which might prevent me from seeing it happen.

Also I've run SAS, MWBAM, & Avast full scans with no problems reported.
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koam
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reply to koam
Click for full size
Here's the log of Critical errors.

I can't say if every one of these 41s are when I left the computer unplugged and on and it drained battery and shutdown (and that has happened lots of times)....but I only saw it shutdown without having the battery drained the very last time.

I've changed the Critical Battery Level action from Sleep to Shutdown, as it seems when it should be sleeping, it winds up crashing if unplugged.
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YOU can help reduce poverty, sustainably.
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n_w95482
Premium
join:2005-08-03
Ukiah, CA
reply to koam

Normal battery
If HWMonitor is anywhere near correct with the battery capacity, you have a big problem there. It's reporting it as somewhere around the capacity of a smartphone battery. 4 Wh is tiny. Maybe try leaving it open while on battery and see how the current capacity value drops.

I've attached a picture of the readout on my E1705's battery. It's a 1.5 year old 80 Wh/9-cell battery. The wear/charge level reading on it is a bit screwy, I've tried recalibrating the battery a few times but it always shows something like that. Oh well . It was spot-on with the wear level of the original battery.
--
KI6RIT


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to koam
While looking around on this, I found this tool, might be worth looking running it to see what it says - although the state of the system might be worth just reading up initially without installing it.

BatteryCare
»batterycare.net/en/index.html

The faq's page suggest this:
»batterycare.net/en/faq.html

The battery is new but BatteryCare reports a high wear level

Laptop batteries are made by energy cells. In general they are 6 cells, but larger capacity batteries have 8 or 12 cells (or even more). A 6 cell battery has an average of 60000mWh of capacity when it's manufactured, the larger ones have an higher value obviously. The problem is that there are batteries that come factory programmed as being 8 or 12 cells, but in fact they just have 6 cells. So in the designed capacity, these batteries report a value corresponding to the larger batteries, for example 88000mWh, but since the battery only has 6 cells, the current capacity value is 60000mWh, which gives us a wear level of 31.8%. So if the battery is new, there's no reason to worry about. It's just a badly programmed battery.

.
Kramer See Profile and n_w95482 See Profile may be right on the mark.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



koam
Pink Pecker
Premium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
reply to n_w95482
On the battery it says

Type J1KND
Rating 11.1 V m
Capacity 48 Wh


koam
Pink Pecker
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join:2000-08-16
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Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
reply to norwegian
Thank you.

I understand that the value reported for designed capacity seems less than 1/10 that of others.

The battery's capacity is supposed to be 48 Wh, which I would assume equals 48,000 mWh where a milli-Watt-hour is 1/1000 of a Wh. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The utilities say that the battery's "Designed Capacity" is 4,500 mWh or only 4.5 Wh.

4.5 Wh is only 9.375% of the printed capacity of 48 Wh.

I get that the software utilities would tell me that the actual, current "Full Charge Capacity" is not matching up with what the battery is supposed to have if the battery is degraded.

What I don't understand is why the software tools don't pick up on the battery's actual "Designed Capacity" of 48 Wh. Why do they report only 4.5 Wh (4,500 mWh)?
--
YOU can help reduce poverty, sustainably.
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norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
said by koam:

Why do they report only 4.5 Wh (4,500 mWh)?

I think because it needs re-calibrating.

This article gives you a hint on how to re-calibrate yourself. But this is HP; it should be similar for DELL, but for safety's sake it would be worth just checking with DELL as Kramer See Profile pointed out earlier in the topic. If this doesn't help at all then you maybe up for a new one. 18 to 36 mths depending on quality is usually all a battery is good for anyway.

The laptop also should work without the battery inserted as long as you have the power lead plugged into it to keep you working should a replacement be required.

Also, pulling the battery and power for an hour or so minimum every now and then to drain all power load on the electronics also can help.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



koam
Pink Pecker
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join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
Thanks. After calibrating, Battery Care says
Designed C 4500
Total C 4051
Current C 3987
Charge/dis rate +0.3 W (plugged in)
Tension (V) 12584 mV
Wear Level 9.98%
Total Discharge cycles: 1
Last calibration date: No record
--
YOU can help reduce poverty, sustainably.
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norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to koam
said by koam:

I've changed the Critical Battery Level action from Sleep to Shutdown, as it seems when it should be sleeping, it winds up crashing if unplugged.

Have you tried this setting again at all?

Maybe check in with DELL support on the issues to see what they say about all this.

Also, 2 links to batteries - new to give you an idea on costs.
The same capacity:
»www.amazon.com/Genuine-Dell-J1KN···04BVALYY

Heavier duty:
»www.battery4us.com/dell-notebook···1KND.htm
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke


n_w95482
Premium
join:2005-08-03
Ukiah, CA

3 edits
reply to koam

Wear level from original battery (Feb 2006)
I'd say the battery's hosed. The designed capacity is reported by a chip in the battery and should remain static for the life of the battery. That chip is tasked with monitoring all of the cells, recording past discharge performance, calculating current discharge performance based on the first two, and reporting that to the PC (more info here). If it's reporting numbers that far off in multiple programs, that would be the first thing I'd replace.

I haven't looked for batteries for that model, but I was able to get a replacement battery for my Dell last year on eBay for about $50. It appears to be an actual Dell battery, and so far it's wearing excellently. I can't say the same for the 12-cell batteries I've bought for my Eee PC. Those have awesome capacity at first (~15 hours with minimum brightness, no WiFi, on a first-gen Atom netbook), but by the time they're a year old, they're a paperweight.

Edit: I didn't see the link that norwegian See Profile posted above. Even cheaper than I thought .

Edit 2: I've attached a picture of my original battery. You can see how the reported designed capacity is exactly the same as the new one, while the full charge capacity has dropped as a result of cell wear and subsequent monitoring/calibration results. Surprisingly, it had 40% charge left when I popped it in. It's been sitting in a drawer since June 2011. Awesome battery .
--
KI6RIT


koam
Pink Pecker
Premium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
Thank you all. Yeah I guess the battery has serious issues. That's not too big a deal. It's strange that the "Designed Capacity" is so misreported. It's an original Dell battery.

Earlier this year when my other computer died on me, a few things started going at once. Suddenly the hard drive was corrupted in addition to what seemed like hardware issues. It was very confusing and I never recovered the drive or the computer.

So when I saw the issue with the system drive after running diagnostics I was really worried about this computer. Still am a bit.
--
YOU can help reduce poverty, sustainably.
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koam
Pink Pecker
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Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
Click for full size

CPUID Hardware Monitor Jan 26
Today, the same computer shut down to black screen while using it. The power supply was plugged in and the battery in, fully charged, 100%.

Restarting it gave the same Windows warning that Win 7 had shut down unexpectedly.
It's the same old battery, but it has been performing OK, just has a short life when unplugged.

The event image above is when it happened. The same event, 41, has happened 2x before in Jan. 4x in Dec. 5x each in Nov, Oct, Sep. 6x in Aug, 10x in Jul.

My original post in this thread documents the one time I saw the computer crash unexpectedly. The other incidences of the 41 error may correspond to when the power drained down, such as the plug came out (falls out easily) and computer was left to wind down on its own. After OP I changed some power settings to try to get a more orderly power down under low power levels. Today was the first time I've seen an unexpected black screen shut off since my OP on Dec 3. Today is Jan 26.

While I know the battery is old and sub-optimal, the power cord was plugged in this time and the computer should have continued working even if the battery had an issue. As soon as it went black I checked that the power cord was plugged in. As soon as it restarted, the battery was at 100%.

CPUID Hardware Monitor run about an hour after restarting.
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norwegian
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join:2005-02-15
Outback

1 recommendation


Looking over CPUID, I'd almost say it was shutting down to save over heating. All those temps are high, not excessively, but still very high.