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jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
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"They are just storing it"

'Everyone in US under virtual surveillance' - NSA whistleblower

The FBI records the emails of nearly all US citizens, including members of congress, according to NSA whistleblower William Binney. In an interview with RT, he warned that the government can use this information against anyone.
Binney, one of the best mathematicians and code breakers in the history of the National Security Agency, resigned in 2001. He claimed he no longer wanted to be associated with alleged violations of the Constitution, such as how the FBI engages in widespread and pervasive surveillance through powerful devices called 'Naris.'

This year, Binney received the Callaway award, an annual prize that recognizes those who champion constitutional rights and American values at great risk to their personal or professional lives.

»rt.com/usa/news/surveillance-spy···ens-178/
--
JKK

Age is a very high price to pay for my maturity. If I can't stay young, I can at least stay immature!

»www.pbase.com/jaykaykay



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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Galt's Gulch
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2 edits

3 recommendations

And they're building that nice new shiny datacenter in Utah to store even more

»rt.com/news/utah-data-center-spy-789/

And we (US citizens) get to pay for it.

But not to worry. They're not trying to spy on us just terrorists. After all we must be kept safe (and feel all warm'n'fuzzy).

Gotta love that Binney writes little messages to Bob in his emails. Reminds me of someone else
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
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Ooops. Catching up on news really isn't! And I even felt warm and fuzzy about that wonderful place.

So, I won't worry any more that they're going way overboard for what is supposed to be the "United" States, quote on united intended. Bob is getting more and more intrusive and very much not uniting anything. Guess I am really a terrorist...or shouldn't care about my email due to knowing nothing is secure in the first place. I do worry about my rights, which are being trampled on! We also may as well just delete this whole forum due to not having any security any more.

I will now get off of my soap box and sneak back to my closet.
--
JKK

Age is a very high price to pay for my maturity. If I can't stay young, I can at least stay immature!

»www.pbase.com/jaykaykay


OZO
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1 recommendation

reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

And they're building that nice new shiny datacenter in Utah to store even more

»rt.com/news/utah-data-center-spy-789/

And we (US citizens) get to pay for it.

Country is in a deep recession and budget deficit is soaring, but we go to China to borrow money just to spy on our own citizens... The obsession with all seeing eye in the US becomes not only dangerous, but financially unsustainable now...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


StuartMW
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quote:
...but we go to China to borrow money just to spy on our own citizens everyone...
FIFY.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Blackbird
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reply to jaykaykay

Heh... a free nation, one of the most prosperous the world's ever known, goes to a totalitarian nation to borrow gigantic amounts of money it will never be able to pay back, and uses part of it to spy on everyone (including its own citizens). As Dave Barry often says, you just can't make up stuff like this...
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville



StuartMW
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1 recommendation

Yep. Or as I say "Oh the ironing" (irony).


OmagicQ
Posting in a thread near you

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reply to jaykaykay

Everyone should know the best way to hide is to blend in with everyone else. Look like sheep, talk like sheep, act like sheep. bahhhhh!
--
...Who, What, When, Where, How... Why? Why Not?



Krisnatharok
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reply to jaykaykay

I understand that whistleblowers need to be protected and their claims investigated so government employees feel like they can expose wrongdoing or illegal behvior, but giving an interview to RT.com (Russian state-owned news agency), ostensibly a mouthpiece for Putin's propaganda as he slides Russia back into a Soviet-era totalitarian government that oppresses free speech and uses hostile state takeovers and long jail sentences (and mysterious deaths) against his political rivals?

Please. There is more here than meets the eye. Anything RT publishes is to further global Russian geopolitical goals at the expense of everyone else.

Seeing this story on their website is the height of irony.
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.



StuartMW
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1 recommendation

William Binney has been giving interviews etc to just about any outlet that listens. His interview with RT.com was just another.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



StuartMW
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reply to OmagicQ

said by OmagicQ:

Everyone should know the best way to hide is to blend in with everyone else. Look like sheep, talk like sheep, act like sheep.

That strategy might have some merit. If the sheep are being led to the slaughter maybe not so much
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Krisnatharok
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

William Binney has been giving interviews etc to just about any outlet that listens. His interview with RT.com was just another.

Then he was an unwitting pawn, and incredibly stupid to inject himself between the U.S. and Russia. He has quite a lot to lose personally, and it casts doubt on his role as simple "whistleblower." More like Russian spy and misinformation technician.
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


StuartMW
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Well you could just Google "William Binney" and see what he's been saying for a long time.

Or you could dismiss his as a "Russian spy and misinformation technician."
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



Blackbird
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reply to Krisnatharok

said by Krisnatharok:

said by StuartMW:

William Binney has been giving interviews etc to just about any outlet that listens. His interview with RT.com was just another.

Then he was an unwitting pawn, and incredibly stupid to inject himself between the U.S. and Russia. He has quite a lot to lose personally, and it casts doubt on his role as simple "whistleblower." More like Russian spy and misinformation technician.

There's another question to consider here, though... who is the biggest ongoing threat to Mr.Binney (personally) at the moment? Putin's regime and RT.com or the US government and its letter agencies? For a whistle-blower coming from the black world, life and its choices can be extremely harsh and even upside down. Unless and until one finds himself in a similar situation, he can barely conceive of the personal dilemma and tough choices confronting him.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


Krisnatharok
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

Well you could just Google "William Binney" and see what he's been saying for a long time.

Or you could dismiss his as a "Russian spy and misinformation technician."

Or I could passively insult your intelligence.

I would have expected a little bit more situational awareness and "intelligence" from someone who worked as a spy for 40 years.
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


Krisnatharok
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reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

said by Krisnatharok:

said by StuartMW:

William Binney has been giving interviews etc to just about any outlet that listens. His interview with RT.com was just another.

Then he was an unwitting pawn, and incredibly stupid to inject himself between the U.S. and Russia. He has quite a lot to lose personally, and it casts doubt on his role as simple "whistleblower." More like Russian spy and misinformation technician.

There's another question to consider here, though... who is the biggest ongoing threat to Mr.Binney (personally) at the moment? Putin's regime and RT.com or the US government and its letter agencies? For a whistle-blower coming from the black world, life and its choices can be extremely harsh and even upside down. Unless and until one finds himself in a similar situation, he can barely conceive of the personal dilemma and tough choices confronting him.

And certainly helping an oppressive government that is busy propping up Venezuela, Syria, and Iran is a logical course of action for this person who believes his own government is going to... what, kill him? How do you think that would look?

Right, but whatever. It's now OK to betray your own country. Up is down, evil is good, and all that. Carry on.
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


StuartMW
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So your position is that since William Binney said the same thing recently to RT.com that he's been saying for about 11 years he's a traitor and evil? Sorry but I don't see the logic in that.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



Blackbird
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reply to Krisnatharok

said by Krisnatharok:

... And certainly helping an oppressive government that is busy propping up Venezuela, Syria, and Iran is a logical course of action for this person who believes his own government is going to... what, kill him? How do you think that would look?

Right, but whatever. It's now OK to betray your own country. Up is down, evil is good, and all that. Carry on.

If what Binney asserts is correct, which is worse: to betray the political engines and their operators that he believes are actually betraying the citizens of the nation, or to betray the citizens by quietly submitting to the oath he took in better times and burying what he knows? Who then is the patriot? That is the core dilemma for a whistle-blower in such a situation.

As far as what his own government might do to him, you truly have no idea! There are many things worse than death, with respect to making one's life a living Hell. edited to add: To the honest whistle-blower, their only real hope is that via publicity, the issue will erupt into a full-blown scandal such that the wrongs get righted and the people behind the wrong-doing get removed from their positions of authority. Only then can they find any hope of relief from the threat of personal repercussions.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


EUS
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reply to jaykaykay

Won't be long before everyone starts wearing dust masks out in public a la Asia.
--
~ Project Hope ~


Kearnstd
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reply to jaykaykay

if a letter agency is pissing all over the constitution it needs to be aired out regardless of its top secret level.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Mele20
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Hilo, HI
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reply to jaykaykay

So, Google is lying about requests because requests are not occurring? ISPs are not approached...all mail to and from USA citizens is being intercepted by MIM attack?

"RT: You mean it’s being collected in bulk without even requesting providers?

WB: Yes.

RT: Then what about Google, you know, releasing this biannual transparency report and saying that the government’s demands for personal data is at an all-time high and for all of those requesting the US, Google says they complied with the government’s demands 90 percent of the time. But they are still saying that they are making the request, it’s not like it’s all being funneled into that storage. What do you say to that?

WB: I would assume that it’s just simply another source for the same data they are already collecting. My line is in declarations in a court about the 18-T facility in San Francisco, that documented the NSA room inside that AST&T facility, where they had Naris devices to collect data off the fiber optic lines inside the United States. So, that’s kind of a powerful device, that would collect everything it was being sent. It could collect on the order over of 100 billion 1,000-character emails a day. One device."

So, it is a MIM attack on every citizen's right to privacy? How do we combat this? (Why argue about what source he gave the interview to when what is important is how do we combat this)? Is our only resource to just stop using email?

--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



StuartMW
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said by Mele20:

So, it is a MIM attack on every citizen's right to privacy?

Well technically it's not a MIM "attack". It's just wholesale monitoring.

How do we combat this?

The NSA isn't going to stop by itself. My bet is that they were given tacit approval after 9/11. In theory Congress has oversight but good luck having them do anything.

Is our only resource to just stop using email?

Worse. Your only alternative is stop using any and all forms of electronic communication. No phones (landline/cell/IP), no internet, nothing.

--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

Mele20
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Why is it not a MIM attack? NSA is intercepting email midstream when I didn't give permission for them to do this.

As for landlines, you are claiming that NSA is recording and saving every conversation made on a landline by every person in the USA? Cell phones, sure, they are by nature open and public and only fools (IMO) use them. I suppose NSA intercepts all snail mail and reads it, records it, and then passes it on?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



StuartMW
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said by Mele20:

NSA is intercepting email midstream when I didn't give permission for them to do this.

You keep referring to email. Every single bit (0/1) of data flowing between you and the internet is being captured. All of it. I don't know how to make that any clearer.

As for landlines, you are claiming that NSA is recording and saving every conversation made on a landline by every person in the USA?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Phone calls, of all kinds, have been going over digital networks for decades. The only analog left is the "last mile" of copper between your home and the central office (CO).
quote:
I suppose NSA intercepts all snail mail and reads it, records it, and then passes it on?

I doubt that. It would be very difficult to automatize that process. Capturing digital/electronic data is both trivial and easily automatized.

--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Blackbird
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reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

Why is it not a MIM attack? NSA is intercepting email midstream when I didn't give permission for them to do this.

As for landlines, you are claiming that NSA is recording and saving every conversation made on a landline by every person in the USA? Cell phones, sure, they are by nature open and public and only fools (IMO) use them. ...

What StuartMW See Profile just wrote! There's nothing magic about copper wire. It can be tapped, just as fibre, microwave, or satellite linkage, or switching stations can be tapped. And whether one calls it MIM or whatever, it boils down to tapping - something that once upon a time required warrants, and probably "legally" still does. Which is the core problem... the "laws be damned" attitude held by certain government officials and agencies sworn to uphold law and the Constitution.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


StuartMW
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said by Blackbird:

There's nothing magic about copper wire.

No there's not. In the old days phones were tapped by connecting to the copper wire in the CO (central office). Since all the data flows digitally and over networks these days there's no need to do that anymore. The days of "Mission Impossible" are gone.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


privacytech

@strategichost.com
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

Why is it not a MIM attack? NSA is intercepting email midstream when I didn't give permission for them to do this.

As for landlines, you are claiming that NSA is recording and saving every conversation made on a landline by every person in the USA? Cell phones, sure, they are by nature open and public and only fools (IMO) use them. I suppose NSA intercepts all snail mail and reads it, records it, and then passes it on?

I can bug a landline with parts from radioshack, they are far more "open" than a cellphone that now use digital and packetized transmission methods. However none of that matters for an entity like the NSA who can simply backdoor itself onto the trucklines at the central offices, so cell and landline calls are each easily monitored.


StuartMW
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1 edit
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

Cell phones, sure, they are by nature open and public...

BTW you're correct that cell phones are worse than landlines. Not only can voice calls be intercepted but in addition so can

• Texts.

• Internet (with smartphones).

• Your physical location (GPS or cell tower pinging).

FYI I have a "dumb" cell phone instead of a landline. However I don't text nor do I use it for internet access. It can be located by tower pinging (no GPS) but I don't often take it far from home and in fact sometimes deliberately leave it behind. If Bob wants to monitor my every move he'll have to put a GPS tracker on my vehicle and/or send some goons to physically follow me.
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Ian
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ON
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reply to jaykaykay

Maybe off-topic, but why is it that more people don't encrypt e-mail? The technology to do so has been free and available for years.


OZO
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Many are careless and don't know (or often, don't want to know) how open communications may be misused against them. Others are brainwashed with idea - "good citizen has nothing to hide". Many scared about 3 letter agencies, that may think (widely spread perception and actually is a FUD) that if mails are closed for everyone's eyes - there is a crime and it'll bring additional attention to it. Lot of people simply lazy and / or incapable to set required environment (PKI, encryption programs, etc) to send mails in envelops. And one of the most important causes in this environment - businesses make money on it. Corporations, making huge profits on tracking people, offer simplified ways for communications. Of course, they're offered as "free" and, of course, widely opened to their own analysis. There are many other reasons as well...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...