bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
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| reply to DKS
Re: [Serious] Nurse who transferred prank call commits suicide said by DKS:said by HiVolt:Sad story and all, but the woman must have had other problems if this triggered suicide...
Nothing like blaming the victim...  That's not blaming the victim. It's stating that there was probably more than this one single factor.
It's one hell of a leap in logic to go from "other problems" to "victim's fault". |
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 DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
·Bell Sympatico
| said by bt:said by DKS:said by HiVolt:Sad story and all, but the woman must have had other problems if this triggered suicide...
Nothing like blaming the victim... That's not blaming the victim. It's stating that there was probably more than this one single factor. It's one hell of a leap in logic to go from "other problems" to "victim's fault". Sorry, that's not true. The nurse may have had "other problems" which are none of our business. The radio jocks did not take into account the potential harm their stupidity might do. To suggest the nurse might have "other problems" is to suggest some culpability on her part, where there was none. That's blaming the victim.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| It isn't suggesting anything of the sort. It's suggesting there may have been other problems. Nowhere at all does he say "other problems that were the nurse's fault". That's your own flawed conclusion to the statement.
It isn't absolving the DJs, either. They deserve their share of the blame. But assuming that share is 100% of the blame without asking if there were other contributing factors is not right. If other such factors exist, it doesn't suddenly make this one okay.
Saying it's blaming the victim is pure BS, and if there actually were other contributing factors it's tantamount to absolving them and their causes from blame. It's saying that only the very last factor matters, which is just as stupid as saying that there were other factors so the last one doesn't matter (which nobody here is saying, despite your attempt to frame it that way). |
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| reply to DKS
said by DKS:Sorry, that's not true. The nurse may have had "other problems" which are none of our business. The radio jocks did not take into account the potential harm their stupidity might do. To suggest the nurse might have "other problems" is to suggest some culpability on her part, where there was none. That's blaming the victim.
Sorry but suicide is almost always the "victim"'s fault. It's selfish. If it's due to untreated medical issues that is still on the suicidee for not seeking help. I have zero empathy, sympathy, or good will toward anyone that commits suicide (but feel terrible for their families of course). I've been the unfortunate "family member" of 3 of them in the last 10 years, and a close friend of 2 more -- and it's pissed me off every time. I don't feel bad for them - I want to kick their ass. Repeatedly. Every one of them knew they needed help and just threw every effort to get them counseling, therapy, help, etc right back in our faces.
If this woman was that easily driven to suicide by a couple of phone pranksters from half a world away, she had other problems. Whether she sought out treatment or not, that's on her and those around her.
The ONLY way suicide is not the suicidee's fault is if they are already seeking help or treatment and someone drives them to it and counsels them into suicide. But that's not suicide - that's homicide. See the case of the girl in Ottawa that drowned herself after being counseled to suicide by some creep online - who knew she was suicidal and told her that yes, she should end it, the world would be better without her - repeatedly. That's reprehensible.
Two DJ's making fun of royalty and pretending to be the queen? There's no way they knew a nurse would go over the edge about it - I'm sorry for her family of course - but - it's a standard phone prank played by radio and comic types the world around for decades. |
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 Wolfie00My dog is an elitistPremium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:5 | said by Hydraglass:If this woman was that easily driven to suicide by a couple of phone pranksters from half a world away, she had other problems. Whether she sought out treatment or not, that's on her and those around her.
I'm going to use your comment to make a general response directed to several others as well, all of whom seem to be jumping on this "blame the victim" bandwagon.
There's a lot that we don't know here -- that much is clear. But instead of assuming that there are all kinds of things we don't know about her mental health, maybe it's more realistic to think that there are all kinds of things we don't know about what happened to her in the aftermath of this. Just as a for instance, suppose the hospital had basically told her that her career was over -- not just in that hospital, but effectively anywhere in the medical system. A career that she had trained for all her life and was probably performing exceptionally, since she was assigned to this case. Do you have any idea what that can do to a person? Really, do you?
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"The promoters of the global economy see nothing odd or difficult about unlimited economic growth or unlimited consumption in a limited world."
― Wendell Berry |
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 shanerPremium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB | It doesn't even need to be any of that. The hospital or royal family gave no indication that they were pissed at her. To me, this sounds like a woman who took deep pride in her duty to the royal family and felt that she had horribly failed them. |
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 hm
@videotron.ca | said by shaner:The hospital or royal family gave no indication that they were pissed at her.
Yes they did. Hospital said she was to be removed from duty and to undergo further training. Hospital stated she wasn't fired though. |
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| reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:said by Hydraglass:If this woman was that easily driven to suicide by a couple of phone pranksters from half a world away, she had other problems. Whether she sought out treatment or not, that's on her and those around her.
I'm going to use your comment to make a general response directed to several others as well, all of whom seem to be jumping on this "blame the victim" bandwagon. There's a lot that we don't know here -- that much is clear. But instead of assuming that there are all kinds of things we don't know about her mental health, maybe it's more realistic to think that there are all kinds of things we don't know about what happened to her in the aftermath of this. Just as a for instance, suppose the hospital had basically told her that her career was over -- not just in that hospital, but effectively anywhere in the medical system. A career that she had trained for all her life and was probably performing exceptionally, since she was assigned to this case. Do you have any idea what that can do to a person? Really, do you? The hospital has already released several statements that they had no disciplinary actions toward her, and that everyone there felt equally bad... in the meantime even the royals have said they had no ill will or request for discipline toward any of the staff at the hospital and felt bad for them as well. It would seem it would have been in her best interest to just lay low for a few days, take some sick leave, let it blow over, and head back - but even on top of that - how many people have been booted from their careers and done just fine - most of us at one point or another no? We all have no problem making fun of those 5 (out of 50,000) stock investors who jump out of their high rise offices on the day the market plunges...
Sorry, but I'm sure there was plenty of support available for her to get through this and have not abandoned her kids and family. |
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Wolfie00My dog is an elitistPremium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:5 | reply to shaner
I believe that the royal family would have had the grace not to make a fuss about it. I'm much less sure that the hospital was as "supportive" as they claim, and, as already said, the British media can be a bitch.
There are lessons here on several levels. One thing that's clear to me is that a "prank" like this is way over the bounds of good taste. It's one thing to call a politician pretending to be another politician (as has happened often, and often to good effect!) but this is altogether too personal, and moreover, it invites the breach of medical confidentiality. The dipshits who made the call appeared to be too stupid to understand this. |
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bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| said by Wolfie00:I believe that the royal family would have had the grace not to make a fuss about it.
Prince Charles has even made jokes about it, before this latest piece of news. |
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 GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:3 | Prince Charles is a lot more easy-going and of a "live and let live" attitude than many people know.
Prince Philip is the grouch of the family. |
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 donoreoPremium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON | said by Gone:Prince Charles is a lot more easy-going and of a "live and let live" attitude than many people know.
Prince Philip is the grouch of the family.
Yes, but apparently he does have a good sense of humour to balance the grouchiness. |
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Wolfie00My dog is an elitistPremium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:5 | reply to Hydraglass
said by Hydraglass:how many people have been booted from their careers and done just fine - most of us at one point or another no?
That was just an example. We don't know if that happened, but if something like that did, or if she thought that it was inevitable, your armchair psychoanalysis is flawed. A critical determinant of our ability to cope with a major setback is the extent to which we're conditioned to it over time. Something that happens completely out of the blue is far more devastating than something that we've been expecting for years.
Incidentally, the opposite is true, too. Studies have shown that many lottery winners go on to lead surprisingly miserable lives because the incredible high of "the day they won the lottery" leads to expectations that real life inevitably cannot fulfill. Whereas people who gradually become wealthy can realistically cope.
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"The promoters of the global economy see nothing odd or difficult about unlimited economic growth or unlimited consumption in a limited world."
― Wendell Berry |
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peterboroAvatars are for posersPremium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON | reply to Hydraglass
said by Hydraglass: The hospital has already released several statements that they had no disciplinary actions toward her, and that everyone there felt equally bad... Of course they are saying that now. But her initial interaction was probably along the lines of hospital administration trying to find ways to shift the blame to her. They just never got the chance.
If they are anything like the morally bankrupt bunch that run the hospital in Peterborough she would have been quickly dispatched once the public scrutiny stopped. |
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DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Hydraglass
said by Hydraglass:Sorry but suicide is almost always the "victim"'s fault. It's selfish. And that is such utter, complete nonsense, it does not even deserve comment. Suicide is usually the result of a pre-existing medical condition and often a co-morbid outcome (cultural factors excepted, which are not at play here).
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to shaner
said by shaner:It doesn't even need to be any of that. The hospital or royal family gave no indication that they were pissed at her. To me, this sounds like a woman who took deep pride in her duty to the royal family and felt that she had horribly failed them.
Quite right. The responsibility of care in nursing (at least among those who are competent) is every bit as intense as that of a police officer or the military. It's not called a "sisterhood" for nothing. And given that this nurse was a part of a hospital who was serving the Royal Family, she would have to be not only clinically top notch, but epitomize all the values of dedication and commitment which come with nursing quality.
Maternity nurses are also a special breed. The best are every bit as intense and professional as ICU or ER nurses.
I recall talking with one nurse after a Code Pink call in our hospital. She downplayed her role in the situation, which was life-threatening. "Yes, the little guy just didn't want to do what he needed to do, so we had to help him a little bit." That was it. Very humble. But what they did (and I know this for a fact) was quite remarkable. It saved the child's life.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to hm
said by hm :said by shaner:The hospital or royal family gave no indication that they were pissed at her.
Yes they did. Hospital said she was to be removed from duty and to undergo further training. Hospital stated she wasn't fired though. Evidence?
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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peterboroAvatars are for posersPremium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON | reply to DKS
said by DKS: Quite right. The responsibility of care in nursing (at least among those who are competent) is every bit as intense as that of a police officer or the military. It's not called a "sisterhood" for nothing. And given that this nurse was a part of a hospital who was serving the Royal Family, she would have to be not only clinically top notch, but epitomize all the values of dedication and commitment which come with nursing quality. I am also in line with that reasoning. On the other hand I am very curious as to the interaction she had with with administration before she left the hospital. |
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PX EliezerPremium
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Hutt River
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| reply to DKS
The nurse was from India and I believe had been in the UK for only 4 years. Cultural differences and embarrassment likely also played a role.
This news story says the radio station [continues] to brag about the prank call.
»daily.bhaskar.com/article/WOR-TO···NOR.html
The radio network CEO also said (in another news story) that there was nothing illegal done.
I don't know. In any civilized country if someone calls me and pretends to be someone else (even a regular Elizabeth not Queen Elizabeth) for the purpose of deception, and if they broadcast that deception on the air, then surely that is violating [some] kind of law....laws regulating phone recording if nothing else.
In a Commonwealth Realm such as Australia, impersonating the Queen herself may be covered under some additional law, too. |
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Reviews:
 ·Cogeco Cable
| said by PX Eliezer:The nurse was from India and I believe had been in the UK for only 4 years. Cultural differences and embarrassment likely also played a role. 9 years ago and I doubt 'cultural differences' has anything to do with anything. Having the entire world scrutinize a woman's actions is more than likely the primary motivator here...
All the latest stories and people interviewed paint a picture of a caring, intelligent, woman who was good at her job and was doing professionally well in London. Family members in India said that she called every Sunday without fail and they just spoke with them a day prior and no issues were mentioned. So far there doesn't seem to be anything that suggests there's an alternative reason for what happened outside of the pressure of this event. |
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