dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
665
share rss forum feed

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

[WIN8] How do I make WU obey my settings and keep history?

I had "check for Updates but allow me to decide whether to download and install them". WU violated that setting and set it to Automatically allow all updates. I had a tool tip notice a few minutes ago about an update for Photo Viewer. I couldn't tell WU ok, I know about it, now leave me alone. It kept flashing this in my face distracting me so I finally let it do the update (at the worst possible time of course...that's why WU has to be turned off completely). Anyhow, I think that update turned WU back on to Automatically Allow all updates. That should not happen, correct? But it did and I just accidentally found the setting had changed while looking for something else.

Is there a way to force it to obey my setting or do I have to turn off WU entirely? I prefer WU off completely (and I do manual checks) but I am presently using Windows Defender so I'd like to be notified when there is an update for it.

I haven't used WU since 2004 (got my XP updates manually from Microsoft Download site). I hate this current WU because too much is totally hidden and it too sneaky. It claims to have a list of all updates on this new computer. It does NOT unless it has hidden a bunch of them. For instance, the update for Photo Viewer is not listed nor are a bunch of others. Something else suspicious...it told me there are eight updates waiting ...that was a tooltip said that but the WU says three are available. The main reason I stopped using WU in 2004 was a history problem and history is STILL, 8 YEARS LATER, incorrect and messed up. Back then WU ate all my history and Microsoft was unable to get it back and apparently the same thing is happening now. I care only because I did not want to have to start antivirus trials while I am learning Windows 8 so I turned on Windows Defender for the time being but that means I have to contend with WU which doesn't behave right and does not keep a correct history.

Where is the list of security patches and other major updates in Windows Explorer? I can't find the list. I don't want to look in remove programs or WU. Surely it is somewhere in Explorer like it is for XP? I should not have to open control panel items to find the list. It must be somewhere in Explorer. If I start installing patches and a few other updates only from Microsoft Download site then where in explorer do I find them listed? They won't be in WU which I want to never have to visit ever again even if that means I have to go looking now for a antivirus program.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
Click for full size
My Settings for Windows Update

Different Update Options
Click for full size
I don't make changes from this screen
I noticed something about Windows Update that should be mentioned. I will also point out that the same behavior exists in Windows 7.

When you first install Windows 8, you are asked a question during the install process how you want to setup Windows Update. I don't have all the options here, but the one I selected was "Don't Setup Windows Update".

Once everything was installed, I went ahead and "configured" Windows Update for my needs. The very first time you open the screen, there is an option at the bottom that says something like "Get Updates for Microsoft Products" (or something close to that).
I'll get to that option in just a bit.

If you recall back to Windows XP, there was "Microsoft Update" and "Windows Update". Microsoft Update gave you updates for Office, SQL Server, and other Microsoft Products. Windows Update just gave you the updates for Windows.

The same options exist in both Windows 7 and 8, its just worded a little differently.

However, the important thing here is this. BEFORE I went and installed that, I wanted to setup the settings for Windows update. I set them as shown in the first picture. The options are shown in the 2nd picture.

Now, when I went and clicked on the link to add "Microsoft Update", it caused Internet Explorer (desktop version) to load, and take me to a web page where I could enable this feature. I don't have a screen shot of that, but I had to agree to some terms or something.

Once it was "installed", my system began a scan to figure out what updates I was missing.

However the other thing it did was to change my update option from "Never check for updates (not recommended)" to "Install updates automatically (recommended)". I had to go back to that screen and set it back to what I'm showing above.

I point this out as you probably did set this up as you wanted. However, if you did go in and setup Microsoft Update, Windows probably changed it back on you, and you will have to go back in and set it back.

Finally, I do want to point out that any changes like this I make, I do not do them from my third screen posted above. I do everything from inside control panel directly.

Hope the helps!

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
Click for full size
said by plencnerb:

Once everything was installed, I went ahead and "configured" Windows Update for my needs. The very first time you open the screen, there is an option at the bottom that says something like "Get Updates for Microsoft Products" (or something close to that).

If you recall back to Windows XP, there was "Microsoft Update" and "Windows Update". Microsoft Update gave you updates for Office, SQL Server, and other Microsoft Products. Windows Update just gave you the updates for Windows.

The same options exist in both Windows 7 and 8, its just worded a little differently.

Now, when I went and clicked on the link to add "Microsoft Update", it caused Internet Explorer (desktop version) to load, and take me to a web page where I could enable this feature. I don't have a screen shot of that, but I had to agree to some terms or something.

Once it was "installed", my system began a scan to figure out what updates I was missing.

However the other thing it did was to change my update option from "Never check for updates (not recommended)" to "Install updates automatically (recommended)". I had to go back to that screen and set it back to what I'm showing above.
--Brian

Yes, I continued to use Microsoft Update on XP even though I stopped using WU and got security patches from MS Download Center. I have Word 2002 as part of Works Suite 2006 on the XP computer so I got all Office XP updates and security patches from Office Update (it changed from Microsoft Update to Office Update several years ago).

When I clicked on that "get updates for Microsoft products" at the bottom of the WU screen...I was SOOO PUZZLED. I didn't get anything like you did. Instead, IE 10 was called and opened to a page FOR WINDOWS 7! It told me to use the START MENU to get all updates from WU! There is no Start menu on Windows 8. I have noticed that ALL Microsoft products are updated through WU. My settings are to receive WINDOWS UPDATES ONLY but I am getting updates for other Microsoft Products through WU.

This is the second indication in one day now that Dell may be installing bad images of Win 8 Pro. I have a screwed up System Restore and Microsoft has been saying to others with this problem that the Windows 8 image is bad and now I get other MS product updates via WU even though that is turned OFF for me in the settings and I get a Windows 7 link when I try to get more information. I wonder what else I am going to find wrong with this Dell image. I can use the USB key Dell sent and reinstall Windows 8 Pro but while that is not the factory installed image it is a Dell image so the question becomes is that image ok or may it also be screwed up? Or is it actually that Microsoft techs are misinforming users and the problems are Windows 8 problems not a bad installation of Windows 8?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
I'll make this a quick reply due to the time difference.

What I will say is that at some point today, I'll again swap hard drives, and re-install Windows 8 Pro x64. In doing so, I'll take some screen captures of this part of my process, so you (and of course everyone else) can see what is going on.

As most people should know by now, I'm good with being detailed when it comes to troubleshooting an issue!

So, I'll do that later, and post back with what I find out as far as the screens that come up, and the process I go through at this point. Off the top of my head, I don't recall seeing any mention of "Windows 7" or the "Start button" like you have shown above. However, since I've done this so many times, I probably may not have even noticed, and just clicked the button.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20
Click for full size
Pic #1
Click for full size
Pic #2

Pic #3
Click for full size
Pic #4
Click for full size
Pic #5
Click for full size
Pic #6
Click for full size
Pic #7
Click for full size
Pic #8
Click for full size
Pic #9
Click for full size
Pic #10
As promised, I went back and investigated my experience with Windows Update inside of Windows 8 Pro x64.

Be warned: Lots of pictures, and lots of reading here!

When I went through the install process, you of course get to a point where it asks if you want to take the "Express Options" or "Customize settings". I am someone who always likes to make sure I know what is going on, so I selected "Customize Settings". One of the many options that the install asks is below. I have added the bold to show the default option

Windows update options
Automatically install important and recommended updates
• Automatically install important updates
• Don't set up Windows Update (not recommended)

I choose the 3rd option, to not setup windows update at this time (during the install).

With the install of Windows 8 complete, we move on to how I configured Windows Update, complete with the options I selected, and the screens that I saw.

Picture #1 is what I see when I click on "Windows Update" from inside the control panel. Of note is the text "Find out more" indicated by the Red arrow. I'll touch more on that in a second.

I then click the text "Change Settings" that is on the left side of the screen, and I am presented with what is shown in Picture #2. Since I did not make a choice during the install of Windows 8, no choice is made here, and it is then asking me how I would like to set this up. Picture #3 lists the options that I have to choose from.

I go ahead and select the last option, "Never check for updates (not recommended)", and then check the box "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates". My screen then looks like it does in Picture #4.

I then click the OK button, which returns me back to the screen shown in Picture #1. It is at this time that I click the blue text "Find out more".

Doing so opens up Internet Explorer 10 in desktop mode. The web page that I am presented with is shown in Picture #5.

I check the box "I agree to the Terms of Use for Microsoft Update." and then click the "Install" button.

Doing so kicks off the install of "Windows Update" to my system. It takes just a few seconds, and I am then presented with the what is shown in Picture #6.

Of note at this point is the fact that I do not see what you did. There is no mention of Windows 7, or clicking the start button. Mine does say the "Start Screen" at the top, as well as the screen containing the words "Swipe" and "tap", which are all new things inside of Windows 8.

Closing IE, I go back to the Windows Update screen, which is now in the process of checking my system to figure out what updates I'm missing. Instead of letting it finish, I click on the "Change Setting" button again. Now, as I showed in Picture #4, I already set the options how I want them.

However, I am now surprised and shocked by what I see for the options, and that is shown in Picture #7. Microsoft has updated my selection from "Never check for updates (not recommended)" to "Install updates automatically (recommended)". Also, a new check box is now present, and its checked: "Give me updates for other Microsoft products when I update Windows".

The additional box is OK, as that is what I installed. However, the fact that Microsoft changed how Windows Update will work on my system, and did not tell me, is the part that I'm not to happy about. Sure, its easy to change back (which I did), and now my screen looks like it does in Picture #8.

I did want to point that out to you, as you mentioned in your first post that you knew you changed the option for Windows Update, and how your updates would be installed on your system. Yet they were not working the way you had set them. This is probably why.

I know this same behavior happens inside of Windows 7 too, as my steps for setting up Windows Update are the same there as they are inside of Windows 8.

Finally, the last two pictures (#9 and #10) are just to show what updates I'm being offered.

Well, that's what I found out. Going by your screen shots, it looks like Dell messed something up in their image of Windows 8, as the windows update screen looks totally different then mine. It makes me wonder if you should try to acquire another source for Windows 8.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
That's a long tutorial and excellent! Thanks. Others with a problem should benefit from it also.

I figured out that the reason I was getting Windows 7 Microsoft Updates screen was because I was letting the Proxomitron filter the webpages and it is using a Win 7 User Agent String. So, I bypassed it and then clicked the "Learn more link" on Windows Update and then I got the Windows 8 page.

However, I declined to install it because Microsoft said it would change my settings for Windows Update to Automatic and it didn't say I could change it back and that really irritated me.

I also did not have the choices on the left like you show in screenshot 9. WU just wanted to install the updates. I don't know what I did just now but I finally got that screen that gives a link to the KB for each update. So, I let it install 2 important updates (but not three others that were just suggested). I checked it was still set to not install updates automatically. BUT when I checked Services, I found that WU, which I had DISABLED (along with BITS), was now ENABLED AND RUNNING. That's unacceptable. I'm still going to have to stop using Windows Defender (it was one of the two that I just got an update for) because I am not going to go through contortions like this every day to update Defender.

I'll not use WU at all. I'll get my patches from reading each KB. I take the Security Bulletin Notifications in email (of course, I get that in dslreports email which DOES NOT WORK ON WINDOWS 8 except on Opera...it doesn't work on Thunderbird or Sea Monkey mail and no one at this site has helped me figure out why and how to fix it - I have two threads in the Mail forum here with no help - funny thing is that SeaMonkey mail and Thunderbird use dslr smtp server to send but won't import my mail...but then a password is only required on import not on sending and dslr server rejects my password but when Opera mail is used the password is accepted by dslr mail server). I also can read the Security Bulletin thread in the Security forum here each month and get them through that.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
said by Mele20:

I also did not have the choices on the left like you show in screenshot 9. WU just wanted to install the updates. I don't know what I did just now but I finally got that screen that gives a link to the KB for each update. So, I let it install 2 important updates (but not three others that were just suggested). I checked it was still set to not install updates automatically. BUT when I checked Services, I found that WU, which I had DISABLED (along with BITS), was now ENABLED AND RUNNING. That's unacceptable.

I did some research / testing with the two services you mention above: "Windows Update" and "BITS (Background Intelligent Transfer Service)".

The first thing I noticed is that anytime you make a change to how you want windows to install updates, if these are not set the way Windows wants them to be set, they will be set back.

Next, with them both disabled and not running, Windows Update won't work. Kind of a "DUH" moment there, as Windows Update requires both of these to be running.

Finally, if you do have both of these services not running, you won't get asked if you want to install Microsoft Update. That option does not even show up on the screen.

So, if you want to not use Windows Update, I would suggest the following steps (in this order) to disable it

1) Go into Windows Update, and modify the settings so it is set to "Never Check for Updates"
2) Stop and disable the Windows Update service
3) Stop and disable the BITS service.

Personally, I like Windows Update, as it makes for an easy way to check for, and install updates for Windows. However, there is nothing wrong with not using it, if you have other ways to keep track of, and install, the updates.

I also don't know what else the BITS service is used for. You may run into other issues or problems with it not running. I'm not really sure here, just a guess on my part.

Speaking of updates, today is Patch Tuesday! Like clockwork, Microsoft always releases the monthly patches on the 2nd Tuesday of the month.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
It appears to me that BITS on Win 8 doesn't have much to do with WU. On XP it does have to be enabled to use WU but not so on Win 8. I can use WU and even get those links on the left (still not sure how I got them though finally) with BITS still disabled.

I just downloaded each patch from Microsoft Download Center and saved them to disk. When I had all of them (already had installed latest Flash for plugin browsers and latest Java) I clicked on the first one to install it. I got an error message about the installer being disabled. I went to Services and started two Windows Installers that were set to "manual" and were not started. Then I tried again. I still got the error.

It appears that Microsoft Download Center is irrelevant as far as Win 8 goes because apparently one MUST enable Windows Update even to install patches obtained MANUALLY. I posted in the Security forum thread on Microsoft Security Bulletins for December and asked but it looks like we are forced to use WU unless you are lucky enough to still have XP.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
said by Mele20:

It appears to me that BITS on Win 8 doesn't have much to do with WU. On XP it does have to be enabled to use WU but not so on Win 8. I can use WU and even get those links on the left (still not sure how I got them though finally) with BITS still disabled. ...

You can find an explanation of BITS at About BITS (Windows) . Long story shortened, it appears that it provides download services for an ongoing download, even when the invoking application is exited. With something running in the background like WU under certain of its settings, that might become important.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville