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darkrabbit

join:2012-12-12

Bell FTTH question

Hi all, I have some technical questions with respect to Bell's FTTH in Ontario.

Currently I have Rogers. My modem is in passthrough as it goes into a Palo Alto firewall with DHCP enabled. I get a real public IP on the FW of course. I need this as I use SSL and IPSEC VPN's to my colo.

Now apparently in our new house FTTH will be available, which is awesome since I was hoping they would give me light Unfortunately the reason I've never gone with Bell is because of their archaic use of phone lines and, worst of all, PPPoE, which is for all intents and purposes "dial up" (having to give a user ID and password prior to connection is something I haven't done since I had a 28.8k modem). Then the public IP used to rotate frequently on the outside while you'd get a private IP inside. All quite useless.

So I am wondering about FTTH, and whether the same old junk applies. Do I have to have an ID / password to "dial up" to my fibre connection? I am hoping they drop a fibre line in with a media converter or router, tip their hat and say "good luck". Sort of what they do with corporate fibre drops.

So for those with FTTH what are my options here? I NEED incoming traffic to work to the Palo Alto, a public IP, and I don't mind DHCP because I never disconnect.

-J


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8

FTTH still works with PPPOE.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to darkrabbit

FTTH still uses PPPoE. However, the days of "dialing" into your broadband connection are long gone. Modern day modems/routers handle the PPPoE connection for you so that you are always on. Pretty much a set it and forget it situation.



Qsig

join:2009-05-18
Kanata, ON
reply to darkrabbit

As stated is still uses PPPoE; If you can tag traffic as VLAN 35 on the interface of the Palo Alto box, you can go directly from the Alcatel-Lucent ONT they'll give you to the firewall. This will skip the Sagemcom 2864 they provide.

I go from this box to my pfsense box so hopefully your firewall can do PPPoE on the interface.


darkrabbit

join:2012-12-12

Thanks guys. Yeah the 'wall will do PPPoE on the interface. I just need to tag traffic I guess, so that's no issue. But.. the fibre connection coming in is an 802.1q tag, is it? So am I right in saying that I could connect the media converter / ONT into a switch which can split VLAN 35 and 36 (TV) off, then hook my FW to a switchport on VLAN 35?

-J



LondonDave
Premium
join:2011-09-05
London, ON

That's my plan this weekend. Why waste power on the sagemcom when I don't need it.
You may have to spoof the Mac of the sagemcom tho.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

palo alto? isnt that california?



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to LondonDave

sorry im new to ftth what does paloalto mean?

Expand your moderator at work


zed173

join:2010-07-17
Mississauga, ON
reply to Paolo

Re: Bell FTTH question

It's also a company that makes firewalls



STN

join:2004-12-29
Canada
reply to darkrabbit

I would caution against replacing the Sagemcom in an FTTH setup. VLAN tagging is not the only required markings on the packets going into the ONT. For internet you may be ok, but for TV the Sagemcom marks the traffic in very specific ways.


tbb73

join:2008-09-24
Blainville, QC
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe

For internet only it's very easy to get rid of the Sagemcom. Tag with ID 35 and spoof the MAC address of the Sagemcom... that's it, easy.

For the TV this is different. You need another VLAN ID (36), you need some static routes and complicated DNS setup because the sagemcom will redirect some DNS requests to the TV service DNSs at Bell...



LondonDave
Premium
join:2011-09-05
London, ON

Very easy. I removed my sagemcom from the FTTH ONT and hooked up the f0.35 port from my cisco 1812 and I'm up and running with one less device on the wall.



amrdave

@amazonaws.com

How's the throughput on your 1812? What kind of profile (speed) do you have?



LondonDave
Premium
join:2011-09-05
London, ON

I'm on the 15/15 profile so I'm not really working the 1812 too hard. I was able to push the rogers 75/2 through it previously without any problems.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

and if u do have problems, will bell help you? what if something ends up not working? what is your backup plan?
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



LondonDave
Premium
join:2011-09-05
London, ON

My sagemcom is still configured so if I ever have problems I'll hook that back up before even trying bell. I'm afraid of how confused bell would be if I tried to explain things.



Rigor_M

join:2010-09-26
Quebec, QC
reply to tbb73

said by tbb73:

For internet only it's very easy to get rid of the Sagemcom. Tag with ID 35 and spoof the MAC address of the Sagemcom... that's it, easy.

For the TV this is different. You need another VLAN ID (36), you need some static routes and complicated DNS setup because the sagemcom will redirect some DNS requests to the TV service DNSs at Bell...

Did you try to NOW spoof the sagemcom's MAC address ?

What i'm thinking is, leave the sagemcom for my TV feed and use another ethernet port on the ONT to connect my router with vlan 35 on its wan side.

the thing is, Bell stopped accepting multiple PPPoE logins so that makes it impossible to bridge the sagemcom and put a personal firewall behind it.

If its possible to not use the b1xxx code in the sagecom and NOT spoof its mac, it would be possible to use a personal router directly in the ONT

any toughts on this ?

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4

I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that only one ethernet port on the ONT is actually active.



Frank_IT
Premium
join:2003-11-01
Montreal
reply to Rigor_M

You cant do that as there is only one port enabled on the ONT.
--
Rogers - iPhone 4s 32gb


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

The Tv portion of the Sagecom is not pppoe it is DHCP.



Rigor_M

join:2010-09-26
Quebec, QC

I agree that its DHCP, but is that for the feed AND internet apps (do they both got out on vlan36) or is the vlan35 used for the TV's apps ?



Frank_IT
Premium
join:2003-11-01
Montreal
reply to darkrabbit

only for multicast stream.

the internet apps on the tv go through vlan35 (internet)
--
Rogers - iPhone 4s 32gb


darkrabbit

join:2012-12-12

Ok so I finally got my service installed. I have both Fibe TV and FTTH 50/50.

Has anyone been able to get PPPoE passthrough working on the Sagemcom with both TV and Internet? Some combination of resets, disabling things, etc? I can't seem to get PPPoE working on the firewall behind the Sagemcom, I guess Bell disabled multiple PPPoE logins (from the seaches I did).

I can drop the Sagemcom behind the firewall I suppose, and tag traffic leaving while dropping all PPPoE packets. That would allow the firewall to do PPPoE... I just now have to spoof the MAC of the Sagemcom on the firewall WHILE keeping the Sagemcom on an internal port, which would probably cause my switch to go a little nuts. I could pass it through multiple routes (as a MAC doesn't survive a route), but that seems like more work than needed...

I do have a L3 switch I can use to do some wizardry if I need to.. I guess I just need to know more about how the TV portion works.

Any ideas?

In the meantime, I am going to setup a span port and hook up a packet analyzer between the Sagemcom and the ONT. I need to understand a little more what I am dealing with.

-J



Frank_IT
Premium
join:2003-11-01
Montreal

The sagemcom need to stay the 1st device after the ONT. there is no way yet to put it differently.
--
Rogers - iPhone 4s 32gb


darkrabbit

join:2012-12-12

Do you mean with TV AND Internet or with Internet only? There are a number of threads where people got it to work Internet only I believe simply by spoofing the MAC and tagging outbound traffic on 35...

So from here, if for TV and Internet I MUST keep it inline, the question is how to get PPPoE passthrough working?

-J



Rigor_M

join:2010-09-26
Quebec, QC

said by darkrabbit:

Do you mean with TV AND Internet or with Internet only? There are a number of threads where people got it to work Internet only I believe simply by spoofing the MAC and tagging outbound traffic on 35...

So from here, if for TV and Internet I MUST keep it inline, the question is how to get PPPoE passthrough working?

-J

Thats just it, you cant.. now without activating another port on the ONT..

for internet + TV, if you remove the PPPoE login from the sagemcom, you wont get VoD + apps working on the TV.. and removing the sagemcom from port 1 of the ONT, then, you wont get TV period.

Bell has squized the ball on this one.. they made sure that WE HAVE to use there equipement and nothing else.


Frank_IT
Premium
join:2003-11-01
Montreal

VOD will work even without PPPoE in the sagemcom.
--
Rogers - iPhone 4s 32gb



Rigor_M

join:2010-09-26
Quebec, QC

Did not work last time i made some tests.

when saying VOD, I mean by that, all subscribed channel that also have vod like Prise2, SE, Casa, etc...

I did not try to rend a movie.

Also, Galaxie music did not work (not the channel but the apps) -- that one maks more sens that it did'nt work