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royrogers

join:2012-10-17

CNAM/LIDB questions

Sometimes the CID information I receive on incoming calls via my Callcentric trunk doesn't match the caller.

I did a little digging and found two of the callers both have accounts with Broadvox. And Broadvox is apparently using Level-3 for local # termination on both of these callers.

When I go to CallWithUs and use the "North American # lookup," I find that the CNAM field is incorrect and matches what I'm receiving from Callcentric for one of the callers, and is incorrect for the other caller is well, but isn't what I'm receiving for that caller from Callcentric.

BTW, I'm not the only one receiving the incorrect CNAM for these callers. People w/ Time Warner phone service also apparently get the wrong data.

When I check the #'s via OpenCNAM, the CNAM data is CORRECT.

I could switch to OpenCNAM for all my incoming calls, but OpenCNAM provides incorrect data more often (it seems) than Callcentric.

LOL, what a mess.

So I called Level-3 and asked them about it. They (Level-3) actually had the correct CNAM in their database for the phone #'s in question. They (L3) told me to open tickets w/ Broadvox, and that another LIDB update could occur for those #'s.

I've been doing quite a bit of reading on CNAM and LIDB. The more I read, the more questions I have.

(1) Who are the big CNAM database providers?

(2) Is there a way to check these databases without having to subscribe? Like a central clearinghouse that will tell me what everyone has on file per a certain #. I doubt it, but I thought I'd ask.

(3) Does anyone know where Callcentric gets their CNAM data?

Would anyone care to talk about anything they've learned about LIDB and CNAM, and extra points for ways to get everything synchronized?

And how does LIDB works? From the conversation I had w/ Level-3, it sounds like changes that happen on their end (only the changes, not the entire database) are rolled-out in an update file. I'm not sure what happens past this point, though. How is the data is provided to other carriers and CNAM database providers???

Just tell me everything you know about LIDB and CNAM.


PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
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said by royrogers:

(1) Who are the big CNAM database providers?

(2) Is there a way to check these databases without having to subscribe? Like a central clearinghouse that will tell me what everyone has on file per a certain #. I doubt it, but I thought I'd ask.

(3) Does anyone know where Callcentric gets their CNAM data?

1. Targus and Verisign, I believe. But Targus is now owned by Neustar, and Neustar is run by the woman who destroyed SunRocket.

2. No.

3. Proprietary.

royrogers

join:2012-10-17

Thanks. Doing a little research using Neustar and VeriSign, looks like TNS is another fairly large provider.



Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:6

TNS took over the CNAM part of Verisign, fyi.


royrogers

join:2012-10-17

said by Trev:

TNS took over the CNAM part of Verisign, fyi.

Ayep, just figured that out. Thanks!

sokhapkin
Premium
join:2003-05-08
Cape Coral, FL

CallWithUs "North American number lookup" shows Targus DB data.
--
»www.callwithus.com



Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:6
reply to royrogers

No problem.

I can also tell you that Level 3 hired TNS to host their LIDB & CNAM database. This makes TNS the authoritative source of Level 3 data.
--
Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca
Get your Obihai ATA in Canada.


royrogers

join:2012-10-17
reply to sokhapkin

said by sokhapkin:

CallWithUs "North American number lookup" shows Targus DB data.

But I thought they're now Neustar, no?

I have a client with a phone # that, when they call me, the CNAM I get from Callcentric is for a business that probably previously had that #.

So I went to your "North American number lookup" and punched the # in, and sure enough, the CNAM matches what I'm getting from Callcentric.

So I do a little research and find that Targus is now Neustar? So I found this site (part of Neustar):

»webapp.localeze.com/directory/search.aspx

And I punch-in the phone #, but they don't have any listing for the #.

How is that happening?

I assume I must be wrong and Targus did not become Neustar?

royrogers

join:2012-10-17
reply to Trev

said by Trev:

No problem.

I can also tell you that Level 3 hired TNS to host their LIDB & CNAM database. This makes TNS the authoritative source of Level 3 data.

That is helpful to know, because the #'s that tend to be a problem are L3 #'s.

PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
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reply to royrogers

said by royrogers:

So I do a little research and find that Targus is now Neustar? So I found this site (part of Neustar):

»webapp.localeze.com/directory/search.aspx

And I punch-in the phone #, but they don't have any listing for the #.

How is that happening?

I assume I must be wrong and Targus did not become Neustar?

Neustar is a big company.

Many databases, many offices and people.

Or as the Bible says:

[In my Father’s house are many rooms.]
John 14:2

Stewart

join:2005-07-13
kudos:24
reply to royrogers

I've seen situations where calls handed to Level 3 by IP (bypassing the PSTN) with a display name in the SIP, are delivered to the callee with that name, i.e. there is no LIDB lookup at all. If your Callcentric DID is with Level 3, that's probably what is happening. If the callers correctly set the display name in their devices or switches, your problem will likely be solved.



Davesnothere
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join:2009-06-15
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kudos:7

4 edits

said by Stewart:

I've seen situations where calls handed to Level 3 by IP (bypassing the PSTN) with a display name in the SIP, are delivered to the callee with that name, i.e. there is no LIDB lookup at all. If your Callcentric DID is with Level 3, that's probably what is happening. If the callers correctly set the display name in their devices or switches, your problem will likely be solved.

 
Yes, IIRC, yourself and/or one or more of the other gurus/regulars who post here (and may already have done so above) have stated to me previously that an 'on-the-fly' transmission of CNAM info IS possible, especially with Canadian carriers and/or rate centres, and that if the call recipient's telco/carrier sees this info and chooses to pass it along, a dip into the LIDB could become unnecessary - though others will do the dip regardless of such info, and in some cases will also charge the call recipent on a 'per dip' basis.

In the case of Rogers Communications' cellular PAYG service, I am allowed to specify to their CS reps what 15-digit CNAM string I wish to have broadcast when I call outbound from my account there, and THEY set this from THEIR console.

However, if a carrier receiving a call from that same number CHOOSES (for whatever above reason) to do a CNAM dip, they may well retrieve very different CNAM info, as the CNAM from my last former business use of the number in question is still 'stuck' in the 'Bell Canada / Canada 411 / Yellow Pages Group' LIDB.

I would still very much like to remedy THAT, and have that LIDB yield either my personal name (as the cell carrier does currently broadcast), or nothing at all (unknown/unlisted/whatever).

Who should I be approaching to achieve that result ?

Does it matter (or not) that the number was originally a Bell Canada landline number ?

Will the fact that this number in in the process of being ported to Anveo affect the answers to the above questions ?

BTW, Anveo uses Iristel as CLEC for my temporary DID number, in case that influences the answers too.

royrogers

join:2012-10-17
reply to Stewart

Thank you Stewart.

My CC is with Bandwidth.com.

The problem also occurs when the callers dial someone with Time Warner phone service. But I do not know how Time Warner works.


PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
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·voip.ms

said by royrogers:

The problem also occurs when the callers dial someone with Time Warner phone service. But I do not know how Time Warner works.

This does not provide a full answer, but was still an interesting discussion:
»web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/···35zuSK0E

--------------------

Note:
[IAM] is Initial Address Message.
»www.zytrax.com/tech/ss7/ss7_intro.html