dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
5
share rss forum feed


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to dillyhammer

Re: If TekSavvi doesn't fight on Jan 14th, I'm leaving them.

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

lmao!! Yes because customers subsidize the legal bills. This is how you think? You guess that bills should reach $250 a month to pay the lawyers? So your method is, unless you want your bills to skyrocket, don't expect an ISP to do anything on your behalf.

Well because we don't want those bills going up now do we.

I'm in the hosting industry (Web, domains, Servers, colo). We are faced with simular things daily. You sir, do not understand how a business works or the legalities involved annually. I guarantee i get more court orders then TSI in my business trying to get at my customers servers. We appeal everything...

Guess what? Still in business, still offering good prices and we're 17 years strong, thanks.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

said by Tx:

I'm in the hosting industry (Web, domains, Servers, colo). We are faced with simular things daily. You sir, do not understand how a business works or the legalities involved yearly. I guarantee i get more court orders then TSI in my business trying to get at my customers servers. We appeal everything...

All we ever hear is hot air and bullshit. Put your money and expertise where your mouth is. Give Teksavvy a hand. Show them how it's done.

Better yet, why don't YOU mount the legal challenge? You seem to know all about it.

Time to go BIG or go home.............


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by elitefx:

said by Tx:

I'm in the hosting industry (Web, domains, Servers, colo). We are faced with simular things daily. You sir, do not understand how a business works or the legalities involved yearly. I guarantee i get more court orders then TSI in my business trying to get at my customers servers. We appeal everything...

All we ever hear is hot air and bullshit. Put your money and expertise where your mouth is. Give Teksavvy a hand. Show them how it's done.

Better yet, why don't YOU mount the legal challenge? You seem to know all about it.

Time to go BIG or go home.............

lol, dude, you have no clue how a business is run clearly. Even if we had the best of the best, it's his choice to go a different direction. It has nothing to do with putting money or expertise where our mouth is.

Marc is choosing not to due to other reasons. If you'd like to know why, PM him as he's told me in PM.

Teksavvy has their own lawyers, what difference would mine make? He's the one making the business decision not to go forward with appealing the court order. How do you not get this? I don't know any other languages to tell you this. It's very basic.

The nature of my business is a bit different then theirs, but we do get more court orders then they do i'd put money on it due to the nature of my business. If we caved and gave up information each time we'd be done for. As a matter of fact we're popular for our stance on this and it does have it's downsides for attracting the wrong content and attention that follows it.

No going big or going home bud. Go ask Marc. It's his choice not to go forward. That's his right, it is after all his business at the end of the day. You make it sound like his hands are tied and he's being forced not to do anything.

In one way i admire him for knowing this wouldn't be taken very well and standing his ground for a business he and his brother built from the ground up as well. His choice, not mind, not anyones. That is after all what makes him the CEO.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to elitefx

said by elitefx:

said by Tx:

I'm in the hosting industry (Web, domains, Servers, colo). We are faced with simular things daily. You sir, do not understand how a business works or the legalities involved yearly. I guarantee i get more court orders then TSI in my business trying to get at my customers servers. We appeal everything...

All we ever hear is hot air and bullshit. Put your money and expertise where your mouth is. Give Teksavvy a hand. Show them how it's done.

Better yet, why don't YOU mount the legal challenge? You seem to know all about it.

Time to go BIG or go home.............

Anyway, merry christmas dude. Enjoy the time with your family. Have a good day and be safe during the new year

Fuzzy285

join:2012-12-12

1 edit
reply to elitefx

said by elitefx:

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Divided by the 2000 IP's affected it would be only about $500 per IP, much, much less than what TSI loses in a year of subscriptions if those accounts migrate. But like TX said, Marc has his reasons, it's his business, so whatever they are, they're by default valid.

There'll definitely be an exodus from TSI, and those who stay might opt to subscribe to private VPN's to cut down on risk. After the initial hit, TSI's exposure to this might be slightly reduced, since a lot of people will modify their downloading behavior, or be more careful with their Wifi routers, or monitor their kids better, etc. Maybe. But I don't blame customers for leaving, there's nothing fair to them about what is happening, and they are probably angry and confused.

The new Copyright laws have set penalties as low as $100 for infringement for personal use, and have made it clear they don't want mass lawsuits by trying to put together a notice to notice system, and by not requiring minimum retention times for logs. Though not perfect, I'm very surprised at how well it balances the interests of the public and those of rights holders. Voltage is doing an end run around the spirit of the new law and abusing the courts by filing their outrageous claim for commercial infringement and punitive damages. If they set this precedent, all the years of consultation and the struggle to set something fair in Canadian copyright law will be out the window.

Setting aside those wrongly accused, I don't think anybody who downloaded a Voltage movie wanted to do more than see what the movie was about. I agree with the new law: those people should pay between $100 and $5,000, depending on severity, whether they are repeat offenders, etc. That's not what is happening though: Voltage has its own agenda, and it doesn't seem to jive with the public interest at all.

TSI is, though unwittingly, in a position to try to steer this mess the right way. They DO NOT have an obligation to do so. But for some of their customers, the only way to show what they think of all this, might be to migrate, regardless as to whom.

You said that small players don't have the muscle to fight this, you might be right. On that basis, unless you are on Voltage's side in raping our Canadian laws, you might want to put your money behind the big boys, and lobby them to fight it. As ineffective as it might be, by your own reasoning, putting your money behind TSI is even less so.

Happy Christmas to all, and to all a Good Year!

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to Tx

While some of the people like myself have legitimate concerns The problem remains we are a minority Most folks bitching Have there hands in Cookie jars, that they should not, all in all not the end of the world and yes teksavvy could oppose it on many grounds but at the end of the Day They are not the Police, they are not the privacy commissioner etc.. They are merely a Dumb Pipe to the Net and we the users are responsible for our online actions. Thus we Should be the ones to Defend them and Oppose these types of orders in a court.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by morisato:

While some of the people like myself have legitimate concerns The problem remains we are a minority Most folks bitching Have there hands in Cookie jars, that they should not, all in all not the end of the world and yes teksavvy could oppose it on many grounds but at the end of the Day They are not the Police, they are not the privacy commissioner etc.. They are merely a Dumb Pipe to the Net and we the users are responsible for our online actions. Thus we Should be the ones to Defend them and Oppose these types of orders in a court.

I disagree. If it wasn't fishing expeditions i may sway a different way. When it comes to your customers privacy you need to take that very seriously. Just because 1 judge says ok hand it over doesn't make the reasoning behind it right. When you have someone trolling your customers, it's time you show you will not tollerate it. Lowering log retention to 4 weeks as mentioned in the other thread makes sense.

There have been cases of biased judges in Sweden over the PirateBay cases because those judges are part of lobbying groups against piracy. So if an anti-piracy outfit says boo, the judge signs.

Again, if it wasn't for a company known to extort in the masses, it may be different. Unfortunately it's not. It's a company known to have a business model of listing as many IP's on a spreadsheet as possible, placing a round number beside each IP and subtotalling it at the bottom. This isn't about "protecting" the art, it's about a new business model, a new cash cow.

The executives have admitted to this, they've been caught admitting to this. Many TorrentFreak articles in the past have been published showing this.

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

lmao!! Yes because customers subsidize the legal bills. This is how you think? You guess that bills should reach $250 a month to pay the lawyers? So your method is, unless you want your bills to skyrocket, don't expect an ISP to do anything on your behalf.

Well because we don't want those bills going up now do we.

I'm in the hosting industry (Web, domains, Servers, colo). We are faced with simular things daily. You sir, do not understand how a business works or the legalities involved annually. I guarantee i get more court orders then TSI in my business trying to get at my customers servers. We appeal everything...

Guess what? Still in business, still offering good prices and we're 17 years strong, thanks.

As i said lawsuits civil wise under 7 grand you can acquire legal aid so , only those well off and those that make a lot a cash will need to buy a lawyer and then the question becomes if your piratign and your weathy you deserve to get sued...the main reasons for file sharing isn't just the aspect of sharing its cause were too poor ....thats number one. that qualifyer on legal aid should cover most people also at min wage....so a huge majority of canucks would be able to retain legal counsel and imagine 2300 lawyers showing up cause voltage wants a class action lawsuit ...yup gonna cost voltage one way or the other...

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

said by elitefx:

said by Tx:

I'm in the hosting industry (Web, domains, Servers, colo). We are faced with simular things daily. You sir, do not understand how a business works or the legalities involved yearly. I guarantee i get more court orders then TSI in my business trying to get at my customers servers. We appeal everything...

All we ever hear is hot air and bullshit. Put your money and expertise where your mouth is. Give Teksavvy a hand. Show them how it's done.

Better yet, why don't YOU mount the legal challenge? You seem to know all about it.

Time to go BIG or go home.............

Anyway, merry christmas dude. Enjoy the time with your family. Have a good day and be safe during the new year

we should start calling this what it is....

economic terrorism. look up both words and see howi mean they apply.

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

While some of the people like myself have legitimate concerns The problem remains we are a minority Most folks bitching Have there hands in Cookie jars, that they should not, all in all not the end of the world and yes teksavvy could oppose it on many grounds but at the end of the Day They are not the Police, they are not the privacy commissioner etc.. They are merely a Dumb Pipe to the Net and we the users are responsible for our online actions. Thus we Should be the ones to Defend them and Oppose these types of orders in a court.

you may think your a minority BUT we are a majority of the net users in canada....10 million in march 2006 logged in at same time to a p2p network
back then we had 18 million net accounts by end of that year 24 million net accounts and according to cbc since 2007 we have dropped 3 million net accounts.
the fact is at 6-7 million file sharers thats a full 33% or so of net users....and it would be more and ill bet of those they are looking after another 33% that either dont have time to do it or dont want the risk.
sneaker net stuff.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX

I said we the Bitching and Innocent Ie Non file sharers are a minority and You the Sharing type are the majority... Did we not agree? funny? i fail to understand your point unless it is merely to agree with mine?>
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to funny

Do you even have clue who qualifies for legal aid?

If you earn more than $14,000/year you do NOT qualify. That means you're stuck with duty council when you go to court.

You're better off defending yourself.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


BellACancer

join:2008-06-04
reply to elitefx

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by BellACancer:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.

You said it perfectly. Unfortunately everyone is so far up Teksavvy's butt and defending their decision that he would spit out a laughable $250 increase in our bills to fight a court order??? I was left scratching my head at that. $1 per customer would pay tons. Not to mention each business has a rollover they turn to in times like that.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to BellACancer

said by BellACancer:

Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

LOL.

Clearly you have NO clue how much lawyers charge.
Something like this is in the $500-$1000 per hour range for each lawyer.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 recommendation

reply to Tx

said by Tx:

You said it perfectly. Unfortunately everyone is so far up Teksavvy's butt and defending their decision that he would spit out a laughable $250 increase in our bills to fight a court order??? I was left scratching my head at that. $1 per customer would pay tons. Not to mention each business has a rollover they turn to in times like that.

If they increased fees by $1 a month on every customer, they'd have tons of people on these boards calling them fascist Bell/Rogers clones, and threatening to leave. Kind of like what happens every time TSI does (or doesn't do) anything.

Personally, I'd stay if they increased fees by $1, but I'd still oppose it. TSI's lawyers have told them what to do and they're doing it. People don't have to like it, but the constant threats to leave are edging into the realm of the tragically comic.


spock

join:2012-07-08
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

I think every one should just sit back and see how all sides play this. Threatening to leave tsi over this one case is stupid. If I was one of the few that got letters I would just ignore all threats from voltage. I really doubt they would take this court individually. They are fishing for money.


Who7

join:2012-12-18

said by spock:

I think every one should just sit back and see how all sides play this. Threatening to leave tsi over this one case is stupid. If I was one of the few that got letters I would just ignore all threats from voltage. I really doubt they would take this court individually. They are fishing for money.

I agree on waiting to see what happens.

As for ignoring it, it's not an option. In fact, if you do, you will find that you will be knee deep in with a collection agency and they LOVE people that initially ignore them. They were harassing us over a relatives debt and I actually had to pay a lawyer to stop it.

You will be amazed how quickly this can turn into an industry.


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to BellACancer

said by BellACancer:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.

The last time TSI increased prices by $2.00 the whining on here went on for a about a month so I don't think people want their payments to go up by a $1.00 either.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Who7

said by Who7:

As for ignoring it, it's not an option. In fact, if you do, you will find that you will be knee deep in with a collection agency and they LOVE people that initially ignore them. They were harassing us over a relatives debt and I actually had to pay a lawyer to stop it.

You will be amazed how quickly this can turn into an industry.

There's a difference between not responding to an extortion letter and not showing up for court.

You ignoring Voltage's intitial letter isn't going to get you into collections unless you miss court and a judgement is issued in your absence, at which point, the plaintiff my seek assistance from a collection agency to collect his or her judgement.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to BellACancer

said by BellACancer:

said by elitefx:

said by dillyhammer:

The court order was meant to be fought. That's how our judicial system works.

What I'd like to know is would all customers like to see their Internet bill increase to $250 or more per month so a small outfit like Teksavvy can pay a $1,000,000 plus legal bill to fight a long drawn out battle to get the information disclosure laws of Canada changed?

Appeals and Supreme Court challenges cost massive amounts of cash. How big of a price hike are you willing to pay to support your views???

Would everybody be willing to pay Teksavvy hundreds of dollars per month to fight this battle for you?

Sell your house. Sell your car. Clean out your bank account and "Let's Get Ready To Rumble".....

Utter lies. Let's say that Tek has about 100 000 customers. Now, put an increase of 1 $ every month. That's about 12 $/year for all users. That gives Tek their million dollars. Enough to pay full time 6 lawyers (200 000 $ each) to fight copyright trolls.

I'm sure people would be more than willing to give Tek this dollar knowing that their privacy will be fought. Moreover, some other isp customers might be willing to join for this value.

i would