 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to tcope
Re: Should we let the tenant move back in after the fire? said by tcope:said by Jack_in_VA:That's not the same as damage to the landlords unit. Probably refers to refrigerator, stove, washer/dryer etc. A renters policy providers the _insured_ liability coverage for property damage and bodily injury. It's not limited to the property inside of a building. In this case it would address the damage to the building itself. I bought renters insurance for 15 years for my father. The agent (mine) and the policy plainly stated it did not cover the building. Only his personal property. The owner carries the dwelling insurance.
It's amazing how much legal advice is on a home improvement forum from people with no training or a license to practice law . |
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 Coma Thanks StevePremium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand | said by Jack_in_VA:It's amazing how much legal advice is on a home improvement forum from people with no training or a license to practice law .
Ain't that the truth.
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December is National Fruit Cake Month |
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1 edit | reply to Jack_in_VA
I have a separate line item that specifically mentions liability. There is a minimum amount of coverage required by the landlord. The landlord does also have their own building coverage.
My best guess for my policy would be:
->Tenant leaves deep fryer on and damages kitchen cabinets ... tenant policy pays for damages
->Lightning hits building ... Landlord policy pays for building damage. Tenant policy pays for personal property |
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Coma Thanks StevePremium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand |
The fact is, you can write a contract to do what ever you want.
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December is National Fruit Cake Month
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PSWired
join:2006-03-26
Annapolis, MD | reply to microphone
By my understanding, the liability portion of MD renter's insurance covers other peoples' possessions that are damaged in the unit you're renting, or bodily injury that occurs to nonfamily members occupying the unit. The normal slips/falls/etc that a homeowner's policy would cover, except applied to a rental. |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:It's amazing how much legal advice is on a home improvement forum from people with no training or a license to practice law . I've been adjusting claims for about 25 years now. Have handled hundreds (if not in the thousands) of claims in suit (probably have 30 in suit right now), attended hundreds of settlement conferences, meditations and trials on insurance claims.
A renters policy covers the _renter_... not the building owner. It provides the renter personal property coverage and liability coverage. Even though liability payments go to 3rd parties, it actually protects (covers) the renter. The renter does not get a policy on a certain property or location... it insures the renters property where ever it's located and also provides liability coverage on the renter where ever that renter may be (usually limited to US locations).
I think where you are going down the wrong path is that the renters policy _does not_ insure the dwelling, as you mentioned. That is, it's not listed on the policy as an insured location with coverage (such as a home owners policy would). The renters policy provides the renter _liability_ coverage for when they are legally liable for _property damage_. If the home the renter rents just catches on fire and burns to the ground, the renters policy only provides the renter a defense as they are not legally liable. But if the renter _caused_ the home to burn down, the policy provides a defense in the form of a payment to the home owner.
I've provided a quote from a website explaining what coverage a renters policy provides. Feel free to search yourself to confirm this information. |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | reply to Coma
said by Coma:
The fact is, you can write a contract to do what ever you want.
To a certain extent... but only if you are a surplus lines carrier. If you are not, your policy is regulated and needs to be approved by the state its written in. But even then, a renters policy is going to provide liability coverage. If it did not, it would not be a "renters policy".
I'm hoping my prior post explains where I think the confusion lies.
In the case of the OP, if I were his property carrier I'd certainly go after the renter for payment. But as mentioned in a prior post, I'd certainly like to see what knew about the heater. Still, there is going to be a very good argument that she either knew it was a heater or should have known. That is why a renter should have liability insurance... to offer them a defense in these matters. As the OP, I'd at least ask the renter to pay the deductible (if the OP's carrier was not going to seek recovery from the renter). I'd also add some wording into the lease that the renter needed to maintain an insurance policy. This not only goes toward protecting the dwelling but also protecting the OP against liability. If the renter has someone over and that someone "slips" (or is insured) they would probably attempt to hold the home owner liable. I won't get into this but it happens _all of the time_.... even when it's the renters negligence. The OP should be listed as an Additional Insured and perhaps even an Additional Interest (if possible) on the renters policy. |
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Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA 
It's amazing how much legal advice is on a home improvement forum from people with no training or a license to practice law .
.
I agree. Especially since these forum/s bring folks from all 50 states, Canada and other Countries. Each State and Country has its own Rules and Laws. Without seeing the Policy and its endorsements, one cannot make any specific statements as to what is covered and what is not. I have yet to see in this thread or any other thread, a posting of any Policy and its endorsements in question.
Take the United States, there are many different levels of coverage available for Homeowners Coverage and the same is for Renters.
General Liability, in my opinion, is one of the most confusing and least understood Insurance Coverages Provided. It covers dog bites, slip and falls, accidents/events that take place off of the premises that the Insured maybe responsible for and a host of other events/situations.
Let your imagination run wild and most likely there is some sort of coverage or a duty to defend in the event of a Claim/Lawsuit. Shoot someone in the woods by accident while hunting with a Renter's Policy [or Homeowner's] - most likely covered. Your kid put the eye out of a neighbor's kid with his bow and arrow - most likely covered. Lose control of your shopping cart and plow into a car - covered. Your negligence causes damage to property of others or personal injury, whether on premises of off, is covered To give a few examples.
One does not need to be an Attorney to Adjust a Claim for an Insurance Company and many Adjusters know the Laws/Rules better than any General Practicing Attorney and many times one who specializes. They do it everyday of the week. I have had many of my Claims go to Suit, we would assign it to Defense Counsel, yet I would still handle it, with the goal of settling said Claim. If Companies had to use Attorney's, Premiums would probably double.
And then there are Laws and Rules governing Insurance Companies and Adjusters and those vary State to State. There are Company Adjusters and Licensed Independent Adjusters, not to mention Public Adjusters. And then some variations of those.
I have been both a Company and Licensed Independent Adjuster, but the area I worked in was the Pacific Northwest. And it has been a while, so I am unable to speak specifically as to current Policies or Laws that can affect the outcome of a Claim in my area or others. Only in general. Worked many years in those positions, until my own Business could pay my wages.
I also was appointed to Intercompany Claims Arbitration and saw the Work Product of other Companies and their Adjusters. Did that for 5 years in addition to my other work.
Sorry to say, have seen a great deal of misinformation in this thread about Insurance, and felt the need to clear the air. Hope this is helpful. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to tcope
said by tcope:said by Jack_in_VA:It's amazing how much legal advice is on a home improvement forum from people with no training or a license to practice law . I've been adjusting claims for about 25 years now. Have handled hundreds (if not in the thousands) of claims in suit (probably have 30 in suit right now), attended hundreds of settlement conferences, meditations and trials on insurance claims. A renters policy covers the _renter_... not the building owner. It provides the renter personal property coverage and liability coverage. Even though liability payments go to 3rd parties, it actually protects (covers) the renter. The renter does not get a policy on a certain property or location... it insures the renters property where ever it's located and also provides liability coverage on the renter where ever that renter may be (usually limited to US locations). I think where you are going down the wrong path is that the renters policy _does not_ insure the dwelling, as you mentioned. That is, it's not listed on the policy as an insured location with coverage (such as a home owners policy would). The renters policy provides the renter _liability_ coverage for when they are legally liable for _property damage_. If the home the renter rents just catches on fire and burns to the ground, the renters policy only provides the renter a defense as they are not legally liable. But if the renter _caused_ the home to burn down, the policy provides a defense in the form of a payment to the home owner. I've provided a quote from a website explaining what coverage a renters policy provides. Feel free to search yourself to confirm this information. I assume your experience in Utah as applicable to all the other states and to top it off you accuse me of going down the wrong path? I stated and stand by the renters policy I purchased for my dad specifically excluded any damage to the dwelling in writing. How much plainer can I make it? Has it ever occurred you that Utah may have completely different insurance regulations than other states? My X wife was a broker for about 50 insurance companies and spent many hours studying for the tests needed to get all the necessary licenses, so I'm not a complete idiot.
Bottom line is you still are not a legal expert and are not licensed to practice law which you are trying to do now. An insurance adjuster is in no way a legal source for information. All the information you post is just your opinion as you understand it and you should state that.
Right now I have my lawyers working on some issues for me. I sure as heck wont depend on a bunch of keyboard lawyers on a home improvement forum.
But all this is off topic so how about we get back to the fact the OP needs to get actual legal advice on allowing his renter back when repairs are made. We can speculate forever and accomplish nothing. |
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garys_2kPremium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI Reviews:
 ·callwithus
·Callcentric
| The liability clause of the renter's insurance is what the landlord would rely upon in a case like this. The LL files a claim, his insurance company files a suit with the tenant's insurance company and they work it out as to who pays how much of the repair bill (beyond any deductible, of course, that the LL pays out of pocket). |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to hortnut
said by hortnut:said by Jack_in_VA
It's amazing how much legal advice is on a home improvement forum from people with no training or a license to practice law .
.
: I agree. Especially since these forum/s bring folks from all 50 states, Canada and other Countries. Each State and Country has its own Rules and Laws. Without seeing the Policy and its endorsements, one cannot make any specific statements as to what is covered and what is not. I have yet to see in this thread or any other thread, a posting of any Policy and its endorsements in question.
Take the United States, there are many different levels of coverage available for Homeowners Coverage and the same is for Renters.
General Liability, in my opinion, is one of the most confusing and least understood Insurance Coverages Provided. It covers dog bites, slip and falls, accidents/events that take place off of the premises that the Insured maybe responsible for and a host of other events/situations.
Let your imagination run wild and most likely there is some sort of coverage or a duty to defend in the event of a Claim/Lawsuit. Shoot someone in the woods by accident while hunting with a Renter's Policy [or Homeowner's] - most likely covered. Your kid put the eye out of a neighbor's kid with his bow and arrow - most likely covered. Lose control of your shopping cart and plow into a car - covered. Your negligence causes damage to property of others or personal injury, whether on premises of off, is covered To give a few examples.
One does not need to be an Attorney to Adjust a Claim for an Insurance Company and many Adjusters know the Laws/Rules better than any General Practicing Attorney and many times one who specializes. They do it everyday of the week. I have had many of my Claims go to Suit, we would assign it to Defense Counsel, yet I would still handle it, with the goal of settling said Claim. If Companies had to use Attorney's, Premiums would probably double.
And then there are Laws and Rules governing Insurance Companies and Adjusters and those vary State to State. There are Company Adjusters and Licensed Independent Adjusters, not to mention Public Adjusters. And then some variations of those.
I have been both a Company and Licensed Independent Adjuster, but the area I worked in was the Pacific Northwest. And it has been a while, so I am unable to speak specifically as to current Policies or Laws that can affect the outcome of a Claim in my area or others. Only in general. Worked many years in those positions, until my own Business could pay my wages.
I also was appointed to Intercompany Claims Arbitration and saw the Work Product of other Companies and their Adjusters. Did that for 5 years in addition to my other work.
Sorry to say, have seen a great deal of misinformation in this thread about Insurance, and felt the need to clear the air. Hope this is helpful.
+1 A very good informative post. Thank you for taking the time to clear up some misconceptions on adjusters and differences in location, companies and policy language. |
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