| Ppl need a reality check about leaving due to their stance I understand the concerns from everyone and I too am concerned. I am no longer a TSI customer but not because of their stance, but because I wanted faster internet and they don't have an agreement with Cogeco yet.
However, the ppl that are complaining are too a degree coming across guilty for whatever reason(s). I will assume that they have been doing some questionable stuff online, whether that be downloading movies/music/tv shows/etc. Now this apparent lawsuit and TSI's stance on IP logging has them all concerned and scared because the gravy boat may be coming to an end.
Bottom line is this, if you don't do anything wrong on the internet, then you have nothing to fear. If you simply browse the internet or check email, then there is nothing to worry about.
Now if you are downloading stuff that you shouldn't be downloading, then guess what, you need to be a tad more careful. Either acquire a VPN to at least make it harder to track, or get a Usenet account to download your stuff and make sure that SSL encryption is enabled. Once you do one or both of those things, the odds of you getting a letter in the mail is slim to none.
For those that want TSI to stand up for the customer, why should they do that if you are doing something illegal to begin with? If TSI said "no" to the courts, how would that reflect on them? The courts would get pissed off, and cause a crap storm for TSI and for what.... to protect the consumer that's conducting questionable or illegal stuff off the net?
Give your heads a shake guys |
|
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Start Communicat..
| said by kcorscadden:Bottom line is this, if you don't do anything wrong on the internet, then you have nothing to fear. If you simply browse the internet or check email, then there is nothing to worry about.
False positive error
And we know - FOR A FACT - that these happen. Having identified some was the basis for getting the ruling on the court order pushed back.
So given that we know there are false positives in the identifications, what do you think the odds are of every single one of those false positives being caught and corrected (assuming a court order is issued) before the settlement offer letters start going out?
While I expect many, maybe even most, of the people ID'd will have actually been engaged in copyright infringement, the belief that it's 100% is already proven false. |
|
| reply to kcorscadden
one or two people cry about leaving and we dont even know they really are leaving , where they gonna go an isp that bends over even worse ROFL
haha your so funny ( see my name ) |
|
| reply to bt
I am not saying that there isn't a possibility that there won't be errors done, but lets face it, ppl for the most part don't have anything to worry about if they have done nothing wrong. Obviously something grabbed the courts attention for you to receive a letter. The odd movie or song here and there isn't gonna get you in trouble or at least the odds are that it won't. However, if you are downloading illegal stuff the majority of the time, you are at a high risk to get a letter.
Ppl also need to remember that you the end user are responsible for your connection. So if you decide to leave your router unsecured where anybody can log in and do anything they want, you are on the hook for that. If you have a 200GB cap and some how you unknowingly used 300GB, you're on the hook for the extra 100GB whether you realize it or not. Most customers will call up their ISP and bitch and moan about the extra charge, but at the end of the day, what's the ISP supposed to do, let it go due to incompetence by the end user? You are responsible for your network.... simple as that.
Same can be said for ppl that you knowingly allow on your network like your kids/friends/neighbors/etc. If they download something illegal, that comes back on you the consumer, not the individual that conducted the activity.
There needs to be some responsibility for end users and ppl want TSI to defend them like they have in the past. However, what TSI has defended in the past is not the same thing as this is. TSI fought the Big 3 and the CRTC in the past, not the provincial/federal courts due to copyright infringement. |
|
|
|
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| said by kcorscadden:TSI fought the Big 3 and the CRTC in the past, not the provincial/federal courts due to copyright infringement.
Few, if any, are asking TSI to fight the courts. They're asking them to fight against Voltage's request for disclosure in court. |
|
 Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3
 ·FreePhoneLine
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to kcorscadden
said by kcorscadden:I understand the concerns from everyone and I too am concerned. I am no longer a TSI customer but not because of their stance, but because I wanted faster internet and they don't have an agreement with Cogeco yet.
However, the ppl that are complaining are too a degree coming across guilty for whatever reason(s). I will assume that they have been doing some questionable stuff online, whether that be downloading movies/music/tv shows/etc. Now this apparent lawsuit and TSI's stance on IP logging has them all concerned and scared because the gravy boat may be coming to an end.
Bottom line is this, if you don't do anything wrong on the internet, then you have nothing to fear. If you simply browse the internet or check email, then there is nothing to worry about.
Now if you are downloading stuff that you shouldn't be downloading, then guess what, you need to be a tad more careful. Either acquire a VPN to at least make it harder to track, or get a Usenet account to download your stuff and make sure that SSL encryption is enabled. Once you do one or both of those things, the odds of you getting a letter in the mail is slim to none.
For those that want TSI to stand up for the customer, why should they do that if you are doing something illegal to begin with? If TSI said "no" to the courts, how would that reflect on them? The courts would get pissed off, and cause a crap storm for TSI and for what.... to protect the consumer that's conducting questionable or illegal stuff off the net?
Give your heads a shake guys
Let's be honest, you don't know a heck of a lot about computers/internet connectivity. I can tell. Not flaming you by any means. It's where i trained most my life.
That said, don't be so quick to label people because they get a "letter" or are fearful of being left with the smoking gun. Don't be telling others to give their head a shake when you're not very knowledgeable with the risks involved in these fishing expeditions.
It's not right someone has to use up legal aid, empty their bank accounts and possibly file bankruptcy to fight this if they were truly innocent. It's not fair to those who are innocent but stuck in a mass lineup of IP's and when you get them in the masses (2300 of them) mistakes do happen.
If you've been truly reading these forums, you'll see already a few were mistakenly notified, not because they claim innocence but because their IP geolocates to quebec when they're in Ontario.
This was fixed as it was caught, but the fact of the matter is, that 1 mistake could have costed 1 person how many $$ ? Cost tax payers how many $$ to now fight for their innocence.
Don't be telling people to give their head a shake because you don't understand how very simple and easy it is to have anyone parked outside your home using your connection. Hiding your SSID? Don't won't work, mac restriction? don't, won't work, WPA2 is crackable, very crackable. Those who use WEP (as foolish as they are) is a 5 second job to crack and gain access to a network.
If you're someone like me who has their house wired and any AP disabled you're good, but these days unlikely since Bell and Rogers both hand out wireless router/modems.
If someone in your neighbourhood want's to be a douche and put you at risk, trust me bud, they will and can. Wireless is far from perfect yet. WPA came out quickly once WEP was seen as a lousy encryption.
If you run DDWRT there are settings you can use to protect yourself a bit more but again don't be so hasty to tell others to give their head a shake because you find it safe in your house, for now.
I'm very passionate about this because i disagree with these fishing expeditions. |
|
| reply to bt
Ok, then ppl should be asking whether or not Voltage has the right to ask for this info and not blaming TSI for their stance. |
|
Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| said by kcorscadden:Ok, then ppl should be asking whether or not Voltage has the right to ask for this info and not blaming TSI for their stance.
Go read a few hundred articles off of www.torrentfreak.com and see what Voltage is all about. They abuse the court systems with the pay up or else schemes. TSI's stance is setting a precedence in Canada. That's one of the reason people are upset.
The abuse it with a legal loophole allowing them to create court orders without ever intending to go to trial using pay up or else schemes |
|
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| reply to kcorscadden
said by kcorscadden:Ok, then ppl should be asking whether or not Voltage has the right to ask for this info
And just who exactly should people be posing that question to?
(hint: the people who aren't happy with TSI want them to be questioning that very point in court) |
|
 apvm
join:2003-02-14
London, ON
kudos:1 | reply to kcorscadden
OP, what worries me is how many of those 2300 were wrongly accused, even Teksavvy admitted that they have send the notice to some 40+ customers that were not involved and there were a few mistakes on physical location of the IP.
I am not involved and I am not an expert but Teksavvy's response to this doesn't add up and does not sounds right.
In any case, I am with Tx and I agree with everything he said. |
|
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to kcorscadden
said by kcorscadden:Bottom line is this, if you don't do anything wrong on the internet, then you have nothing to fear. If you simply browse the internet or check email, then there is nothing to worry about.
As bt mentioned, there is the false positive scenario. It's happened before and it'll happen again. Here's another typical scenario that concerns me because I often do this myself.
Sometimes I turn off wifi encryption because a friend of family member comes over and wants to connect to my network using their phone or tablet. My password is a long, random string of text that includes special characters. It's easier for me to turn off wifi than make them input this long string into their device.
I usually turn the encryption back on once they're done using it but there have been times when I've forgotten all about it and it remains off until I realize that I forgot to turn it back on. In that span of time someone could have easily used my network to do a variety of things, including transferring (downloading and uploading) copyrighted files, posting vulgar or hate messages online and hacking.
Some very well known hackers have used open wifi hotspots to hack into various businesses in the past. Should I be responsible for any of this just because I forgot to turn wifi encryption back on? |
|
2 edits | reply to Tx
said by Tx:said by kcorscadden:Ok, then ppl should be asking whether or not Voltage has the right to ask for this info and not blaming TSI for their stance.
Go read a few hundred articles off of www.torrentfreak.com and see what Voltage is all about. They abuse the court systems with the pay up or else schemes. TSI's stance is setting a precedence in Canada. That's one of the reason people are upset.
The abuse it with a legal loophole allowing them to create court orders without ever intending to go to trial using pay up or else schemes Exactly this!
Op failed to understand the bigger picture just like the very ppl who seem to be arguing for Voltage or agreeing TSI's actions.
I'm not even on the list of guilty and I don't even download those junk.
But gee, I guess by some ppl's logic because I'm arguing against the copyright trolls I must be guilty. To them I say Screw off! Hopefully one day they find themselves accidentally on the receiving end because they were "Identified" as the IP responsible and sued to oblivion with not much proof.
Such ignorance and apathy is why those trolls are able to run loose. And the "If you did nothing wrong so you have nothing to fear" statement is such a moronic saying. It reminds me of the same argument used in getting those TSA at the airports and now look what happened.
If anything OP needs a reality check and need to educate himself further. This is more than just about copyright. |
|
| reply to kcorscadden
I'm so tempted to link a complete course on how to hack wifi available to ANYONE.
Given the relative complexity of setting up and given the very public knowledge of how to circumvent wifi security, is it reasonable for the courts to hold you liable? That among others would be my first line of defense on January 14th. At which point, I would put on a demonstration. Would the judge grant access to thousands of people who may be innocent?
As for the opinion of the thread originator....remember.....first they came for my neighbor and I said nothing.......
So those of us who are innocent need to do $omething with our $$ before they come for us. |
|
| reply to cynic10
Those people watch too much American TV, our laws and court system are supposed to be fairer than theirs and we should fight tooth and nail against greedy bastards who want to piss on our Canadian ways, not bend over. Let precedents like this take place and it's a slippery slope, that's why CIPPIC wants to intervene. Those who still can't understand that are just useful idiots in the hands of the trolls. |
|
 andybPremium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Tx
said by Tx:said by kcorscadden:Ok, then ppl should be asking whether or not Voltage has the right to ask for this info and not blaming TSI for their stance.
Go read a few hundred articles off of www.torrentfreak.com and see what Voltage is all about. They abuse the court systems with the pay up or else schemes. TSI's stance is setting a precedence in Canada. That's one of the reason people are upset. The abuse it with a legal loophole allowing them to create court orders without ever intending to go to trial using pay up or else schemes I have no idea about a loophole but we do not know what action voltage is going to take.History in 1 idiotic country does not mean its duplicated here(though it can be wont argue there).
As for TSI stance well the ISP's are supposed to be neutral as in dumb pipes.You either want them to be monitors or you dont.False positives can be worked out with the ISP to prove before hand.No need for a lawyer or going bankrupt in most cases.
Either way always get a GOOD lawyers opinion,not one who will take the case just to make money |
|
Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| said by andyb:said by Tx:said by kcorscadden:Ok, then ppl should be asking whether or not Voltage has the right to ask for this info and not blaming TSI for their stance.
Go read a few hundred articles off of www.torrentfreak.com and see what Voltage is all about. They abuse the court systems with the pay up or else schemes. TSI's stance is setting a precedence in Canada. That's one of the reason people are upset. The abuse it with a legal loophole allowing them to create court orders without ever intending to go to trial using pay up or else schemes I have no idea about a loophole but we do not know what action voltage is going to take.History in 1 idiotic country does not mean its duplicated here(though it can be wont argue there). As for TSI stance well the ISP's are supposed to be neutral as in dumb pipes.You either want them to be monitors or you dont.False positives can be worked out with the ISP to prove before hand.No need for a lawyer or going bankrupt in most cases. Either way always get a GOOD lawyers opinion,not one who will take the case just to make money Problem is, if i were ever to get accused. I already live a busy enough life, between my hobbies, work, my kids, my wife and my house chores. I rarely get 5 seconds to go out and look for a lawyer for their advice, spending money to get said advice.
The burden really shouldn't be on me to now go shopping for a lawyer and find out my next move should i ever get accused.
Though i don't pirate (i used to when i was young but i tend to enjoy living guilt free now) i don't want the burden of all of this to now mean taking time off work to protect my family and our money.
How is this fair to consumers? We depend on our ISP's our anything, doesn't matter who, to challenge something if accused. Just because someone says "yup they did it, we have an IP" we're guilty and now it's up to us to prove otherwise? No way man.
I was once accused long long time ago, wasn't any fishing expedition like Voltage but i called their lawyers office right away and i had to fill out a lot of paperwork proving i was innocent. I was lucky back then, that the lawyers believed me and i was off the hook.
I'm passionate about this because i was one of those wrongly accused. It takes you to be accused to see the otherside it seems. Otherwise you get people like the OP telling people to give their head a shake.
With technology these days, people are becoming more and more naive with just how exposed it leaves people. Look it up, you'll read several refuse to this day about using wifi. They hate it as it poses security risks. |
|
Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Who
said by Who:I'm so tempted to link a complete course on how to hack wifi available to ANYONE.
Given the relative complexity of setting up and given the very public knowledge of how to circumvent wifi security, is it reasonable for the courts to hold you liable? That among others would be my first line of defense on January 14th. At which point, I would put on a demonstration. Would the judge grant access to thousands of people who may be innocent?
As for the opinion of the thread originator....remember.....first they came for my neighbor and I said nothing.......
So those of us who are innocent need to do $omething with our $$ before they come for us.
BackTrack Linux is used by security professionals everywhere. I use it personally, i love it. I perform security audits on systems for a living.
I will not so please do not ask anyone explain how to use it to crack wifi or anything mischievous |
|
 J E F FWhatta Ya Think About Dat?Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
 ·Rogers Portable ..
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to Tx
There could be a lot of false positives, true, but things people have to realize.
1. You are be sued, not prosecuted in a federal court. This is small claims, get some advise for a lawyer (Damn you, auto-correct!), but do your own research. Be willing to take a day off of work to show up for your case. If you have your evidence, court will rule in your favour.
2. Legal Aid. Most Canadians won't qualify for it, as income has to be well below poverty. You will get duty council at the court, use them to navigate the court room. If you go to court, assuming it goes that far, dress in business attire, have a brief case with well organized documents. Most likely the case won't even be heard, but if they do show up (Voltage), you'll at least give them a run for there money.
3. If you are guilty of said crime, ask the judge to mediate fairly. Downloading a movie for your personal use doesn't make you a pirate, they need to prove that you cost them x amount of dollars. Torrenting for 1 hour doesn't do that.
Also, stop torrenting these types of files. There are other places you can use. Alternatively, you can just use legal methods.
I'd say that 99.9% of people do not use these sites intentionally to hurt these companies. However, the market has changed and the days of renting 5 videos for 7 days for $6 are gone. It doesn't leave people with too many inexpensive ways to rent movies legally. Red Box is fine, if they have the movie in. VOD is very expensive. And legal online sources are either pricey or months behind. The music industry for the most part has slowly caught up and we rarely hear of lawsuits now a days. It's time for the movie industry to catch up to the 21st century and if people who are caught do the right thing and defend themselves against ridiculous charges, then we will see changes here as well.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein |
|
 TwiztedZeroNine Zero Burp Nine SixPremium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:3 | +1  Good Post. |
|
| reply to kcorscadden
said by kcorscadden:Bottom line is this, if you don't do anything wrong [...], then you have nothing to fear.
I swear I read the exact same line in the 1984 novel by Orwell ..... or at least the same idea.
Another interesting read :
Why Privacy Matters Even if You Have 'Nothing to Hide'
»chronicle.com/article/Why-Privac···/127461/ |
|
