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rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to Link Logger

Re: Has Shaw become too Asymmetrical and is now falling behind

Blow's my mind that someone could say that Shaw is falling behind on speeds when the only "competitor" just finally released a 50x10 tier and isn't even pushed to their entire foot print. Shaw has had 50x5 to their entire foot print for quite a while at this point. Just finalizing the upgrades for 250x15. Even If you only get 100Mb out of that, the 15Mb upload would be huge. Node saturation can happen just as much as line issues with VDSL2, here to tell you. Distance is a huge factor for VDSL2, as well. At the end of the day, get what you want and if it doesn't work, switch. I love my Shaw biz well more than Telus biz side.


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Shaw isn't the industry leader it used to be and maybe Shaw's unbelievably bad competitors have something to do with that, but it doesn't change the fact that Shaw's upload speeds need to improve to keep up with the direction that technology is going. If cloud computing really is the future, then upload speeds are going to be a big component of that as now you are not just bring data down, but you have to send it back up as well and that will become an issue for Shaw customers (my Son in-Law has a cheaper plan in the US with a 3x faster upload speed then my Shaw service) and if Telus could get a clue they could use that to get back some market share (however Telus hasn't had a clue since Alexander Graham Bell moved to Canada).

Blake
For years when video conferencing with others, when problems arose I could wave them off with a 'your network connection sucks', but now they laugh and tell me its my network connection that sucks. Shaw ain't driving like they use to.
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

TierX

join:2009-01-20
Canada
kudos:8
reply to rustydusty
said by rustydusty:

Blow's my mind that someone could say that Shaw is falling behind on speeds when the only "competitor" just finally released a 50x10 tier and isn't even pushed to their entire foot print. Shaw has had 50x5 to their entire foot print for quite a while at this point. Just finalizing the upgrades for 250x15. Even If you only get 100Mb out of that, the 15Mb upload would be huge. Node saturation can happen just as much as line issues with VDSL2, here to tell you. Distance is a huge factor for VDSL2, as well. At the end of the day, get what you want and if it doesn't work, switch. I love my Shaw biz well more than Telus biz side.

While I agree with most of what you're saying, upstream is considerably more difficult with HFC Docsis networks than it is with VDSL2. 30% of the VDSL2 17A spectrum is dedicated to upstream, compared to ~5% on a common 1ghz cable plant used with Docsis3 (ignoring the fact below 20mhz is usually too noisy to use for upstream anyway, unless you're using SCDMA modulation).

Most cable operators in North America using Docsis3 upstream channel bonding aren't even using 6.4mhz channels simultaneously with QAM64 in the upstream yet; simply due to the plant maintenance required (lack of DFB lasers, 2nd and 3rd order distortion on return path, etc). I suspect this is exactly why Shaw recanted on there earlier plans to boost upstream rates, and why there 50mbps plan is stuck at 3mbps up. I've been told this by countless cable guys, that there return path is very noisy and very difficult ($$$) to clean up.

The cable co's will definitely get there, but I don't think they'll be able to complete on upstream, at least until Docsis3.1 (2015 for all the bells and whistles).


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
said by TierX:

said by rustydusty:

Blow's my mind that someone could say that Shaw is falling behind on speeds when the only "competitor" just finally released a 50x10 tier and isn't even pushed to their entire foot print. Shaw has had 50x5 to their entire foot print for quite a while at this point. Just finalizing the upgrades for 250x15. Even If you only get 100Mb out of that, the 15Mb upload would be huge. Node saturation can happen just as much as line issues with VDSL2, here to tell you. Distance is a huge factor for VDSL2, as well. At the end of the day, get what you want and if it doesn't work, switch. I love my Shaw biz well more than Telus biz side.

While I agree with most of what you're saying, upstream is considerably more difficult with HFC Docsis networks than it is with VDSL2. 30% of the VDSL2 17A spectrum is dedicated to upstream, compared to ~5% on a common 1ghz cable plant used with Docsis3 (ignoring the fact below 20mhz is usually too noisy to use for upstream anyway, unless you're using SCDMA modulation).

Most cable operators in North America using Docsis3 upstream channel bonding aren't even using 6.4mhz channels simultaneously with QAM64 in the upstream yet; simply due to the plant maintenance required (lack of DFB lasers, 2nd and 3rd order distortion on return path, etc). I suspect this is exactly why Shaw recanted on there earlier plans to boost upstream rates, and why there 50mbps plan is stuck at 3mbps up. I've been told this by countless cable guys, that there return path is very noisy and very difficult ($$$) to clean up.

The cable co's will definitely get there, but I don't think they'll be able to complete on upstream, at least until Docsis3.1 (2015 for all the bells and whistles).

Problem I have with VDSL2 when I had it, was the distance from the CO. I wasn't "qualified" for the 25Mb plan, however I managed to get it overridden thanks to a Telus tech on the Telus forum. If it wasn't for him, I would have never been able to get the 25Mb. With the 50Mb out now, I would love to try it again but the hardware is the next biggest thing for me. Atleast with Shaw they will bridge their gateways so you can use your own hardware. With Telus you are forced to use the Actiontec. I went through 3 of the devices in the 6 months I have Optik at my condo. The last time was a long weekend and I had no TV or internet for 4 days. That was the absolute last straw for me. That was also at a different place of mine. Where I'm living now is not even available for anything more than the 6Mb Telus, therefore I have Shaw Biz at home and love it.

ravenchilde

join:2011-04-01
kudos:2
reply to TierX
said by TierX:

Most cable operators in North America using Docsis3 upstream channel bonding aren't even using 6.4mhz channels simultaneously with QAM64 in the upstream yet;

There also isn't a need to do this. With channel bonding and load balancing (together) you can just keep adding more upstream channels at 3.2mhz and spreading customers across them.

I mean, great job to toss some "facts" out there about cable systems, but your spin on it wasn't needed or necessarily true. Also the size of the upstream portion of spectrum is changing in the cable industry, and that will (likely) happen before DOC3.1.

I personally feel that intentionally, or unintentionally, you are sowing unneeded FUD, and that it isn't in the spirit of these forums.