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Dr Facts

@gc.ca
reply to MaynardKrebs

Re: If TekSavvi doesn't fight on Jan 14th, I'm leaving them.

c) is an intriguing idea but I doubt Voltage would go for it. After all if it gets to a judge I imagine it would go like this (and as always, not a law talking guy here):

Voltage: That guy downloaded our movie! This destroyed our production company... SHUT UP LAUGHING THEY WERE GOOD MOVIES! Anyway we want $10,000.

John D'oh: No I didn't, I never heard of this movie until this case.

Voltage: Well this other company bought this software that they showed us says you did.

John D'oh: Oh. Well I can't help that, I didn't. And how many false-positives does that software produce anyway?

So at that point Voltage would need more, like John's hard drive with the movie on it (or a whole bunch of other copied movies in the same genre) or TSI handing over John's complete internet history including him going to bittorrent sites or someone saying they say John watching the movie or perhaps a post on a forum from John saying that he saw the movie he never heard of an damn did it suck!

Can Voltage get any of that stuff without some major court orders?


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by Dr Facts :

c) is an intriguing idea but I doubt Voltage would go for it. After all if it gets to a judge I imagine it would go like this (and as always, not a law talking guy here):

Voltage: That guy downloaded our movie! This destroyed our production company... SHUT UP LAUGHING THEY WERE GOOD MOVIES! Anyway we want $10,000.

John D'oh: No I didn't, I never heard of this movie until this case.

Voltage: Well this other company bought this software that they showed us says you did.

John D'oh: Oh. Well I can't help that, I didn't. And how many false-positives does that software produce anyway?

So at that point Voltage would need more, like John's hard drive with the movie on it (or a whole bunch of other copied movies in the same genre) or TSI handing over John's complete internet history including him going to bittorrent sites or someone saying they say John watching the movie or perhaps a post on a forum from John saying that he saw the movie he never heard of an damn did it suck!

Can Voltage get any of that stuff without some major court orders?

TSI doesn't have a customer's internet history. They don't do DPI. They have total amounts downloaded & uploaded per month, and thats it.

What Voltage could do however, is do depositions, and forensic analysis of your computer..

However, after years of this racket in the US, they've only STARTED doing depositions within the last few months ("We're trying to find the downloader."), and they haven't done forensic analysis of systems, even if you say you're innocent & offer to hand your system over to them.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


Dr Facts

@gc.ca

>TSI doesn't have a customer's internet history.

Ah, well that's one avenue closed.

Not sure how I feel about that, I dig privacy and all that but when the cops come with a child porn case and a court order I'd like to think that an ISP can help. Tricky line there.

>forensic analysis of your computer.

And if they don't find it then what? They can say you deleted it with some super military grade disc-wipe utility.

And John could say it was never there.

And I suspect the balance of probability between the two still wouldn't be enough to convince a judge to the tune of $10,000.

> even if you say you're innocent & offer to hand your system over to them.

Which I would cheerfully do and fill the hard drive beforehand with all the negative reviews of Voltage "films".


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by Dr Facts :

>TSI doesn't have a customer's internet history.

Ah, well that's one avenue closed.

Not sure how I feel about that, I dig privacy and all that but when the cops come with a child porn case and a court order I'd like to think that an ISP can help. Tricky line there.

Cops come to ISPs with an IP address. Teksavvy maintains IP logs for 3 months (which they've said is usually long enough for one of these investigations) due to billing concerns, so its easy enough for them to convert the IP to customer name provided its in the 3 month window.

said by Dr Facts :

>forensic analysis of your computer.

And if they don't find it then what? They can say you deleted it with some super military grade disc-wipe utility.

And John could say it was never there.

And I suspect the balance of probability between the two still wouldn't be enough to convince a judge to the tune of $10,000.

That's why Teksavvy's notice to users said to maintain evidence, and not wipe systems.
If there was a full disc wipe, you'd still reinstall your OS.. Which would show a date of installation.. They would be able to see you tampered with it, and that you're trying to hide something. Of course, if you had a legitimate system crash requiring reinstallation of the OS.. You'd probably be screwed unless you documented it well.

As well, if it got to the forensic analysis stage, you could always have your own analysis done of your system.

As for judgements... You might get a few big ones at the beginning, but they'd probably be dropping as more suits are filed, as the judges would start getting tired of these useless suits filling up their dockets.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


Dr Facts

@gc.ca

>If there was a full disc wipe, you'd still reinstall your OS.. Which would show a date of installation.

Which only proves that you reinstalled your OS and nothing more. It certainly looks suspicious but again enough for a judge to hand down a $10,000 judgement? Of course to get that information Voltage would have to have your hard drive.

And someone who is guilty could just go onto Craig's list, buy a used computer and hand that over.

Plot twist: The used computer was owned by an enthusiastic pirate who loved Voltage films!


funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Dr Facts

said by Dr Facts :

c) is an intriguing idea but I doubt Voltage would go for it. After all if it gets to a judge I imagine it would go like this (and as always, not a law talking guy here):

Voltage: That guy downloaded our movie! This destroyed our production company... SHUT UP LAUGHING THEY WERE GOOD MOVIES! Anyway we want $10,000.

John D'oh: No I didn't, I never heard of this movie until this case.

Voltage: Well this other company bought this software that they showed us says you did.

John D'oh: Oh. Well I can't help that, I didn't. And how many false-positives does that software produce anyway?

So at that point Voltage would need more, like John's hard drive with the movie on it (or a whole bunch of other copied movies in the same genre) or TSI handing over John's complete internet history including him going to bittorrent sites or someone saying they say John watching the movie or perhaps a post on a forum from John saying that he saw the movie he never heard of an damn did it suck!

Can Voltage get any of that stuff without some major court orders?

and he then adds your suing me cause of commercial infringement

i never made any money from your movie and YOU CANT PROVE IT...
what's it called again ? ( hears more laughing )

case dissmissed.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by Dr Facts :

c) is an intriguing idea but I doubt Voltage would go for it. After all if it gets to a judge I imagine it would go like this (and as always, not a law talking guy here):

Voltage: That guy downloaded our movie! This destroyed our production company... SHUT UP LAUGHING THEY WERE GOOD MOVIES! Anyway we want $10,000.

John D'oh: No I didn't, I never heard of this movie until this case.

Voltage: Well this other company bought this software that they showed us says you did.

John D'oh: Oh. Well I can't help that, I didn't. And how many false-positives does that software produce anyway?

So at that point Voltage would need more, like John's hard drive with the movie on it (or a whole bunch of other copied movies in the same genre) or TSI handing over John's complete internet history including him going to bittorrent sites or someone saying they say John watching the movie or perhaps a post on a forum from John saying that he saw the movie he never heard of an damn did it suck!

Can Voltage get any of that stuff without some major court orders?

TSI doesn't have a customer's internet history. They don't do DPI. They have total amounts downloaded & uploaded per month, and thats it.

What Voltage could do however, is do depositions, and forensic analysis of your computer..

However, after years of this racket in the US, they've only STARTED doing depositions within the last few months ("We're trying to find the downloader."), and they haven't done forensic analysis of systems, even if you say you're innocent & offer to hand your system over to them.

ooops sorry that computer died and i beat it with a sledge hammer last week.....got this new shiney one here

oh and this hacker told me to run this program cleans up stuff on my pc ...nice kid turns out it also gave me a back door virus awful stuff those are. doing all kinds a weird stuff .....

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Dr Facts

said by Dr Facts :

>TSI doesn't have a customer's internet history.

Ah, well that's one avenue closed.

Not sure how I feel about that, I dig privacy and all that but when the cops come with a child porn case and a court order I'd like to think that an ISP can help. Tricky line there.

>forensic analysis of your computer.

And if they don't find it then what? They can say you deleted it with some super military grade disc-wipe utility.

And John could say it was never there.

And I suspect the balance of probability between the two still wouldn't be enough to convince a judge to the tune of $10,000.

> even if you say you're innocent & offer to hand your system over to them.

Which I would cheerfully do and fill the hard drive beforehand with all the negative reviews of Voltage "films".

no proof you have said file
well possessin is 9 tenths of the law....
i know you stole my hammer dammit just caus eyou got no hammers anywhere i know you stole it though....
see this guy had a computer program that saw you do it...says so right here , what ya mean its not a video of him doing it....it jsut says man at this house took my hammer.
ya that will fly as far as a turd as in case dissmissed

i can fake that data pretty darn good being into 3d special affects and video creation myself.
i could even given a lil time make a video of you that would look pretty darn damning till it got real well looked at.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to Dr Facts

facts are facts without evidence there is no spoon