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pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
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My addition will take almost 2 miles of Cat 6

So far, my addition has had 6,000' of Cat 6 installed. Another 4,000' have been requested by the electrician. Also 3,000' of Coax have been installed with another 1,000' requested.

On the high voltage side, between the various wires ordered (not counting thermostat or other low voltage wire) about 3/4 of a mile of high voltage copper wire have been installed. Most of it 14-2, but also 14-3, 12-2, 12-3 and some 8-3 (all romex).

On the driveway, about half a mile of individual wire will be used to create several zones.

The price of copper seems to have gone up int he past year. I'm glad it's mostly installed, but man, does my addition have a ton of copper.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


Speedy Petey

join:2008-01-19

So this "addition" must be the size of a reasonably large sized house.
Personally, I CANNOT see where you would need 10k feet of Cat6. in an addition. No offense, but that is completely absurd! Unless of course your addition is a server room for a small corporation.

Also, the power in your home is line voltage, not high voltage. High voltage is voltage in the thousands, not hundreds.


pandora
Premium
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said by Speedy Petey:

Also, the power in your home is line voltage, not high voltage. High voltage is voltage in the thousands, not hundreds.

Sorry for my misstatement. It's 120 / 240 volt. They refer to the Cat 6, Coax, phone, thermostat and door bell wires as "low voltage". My assumption was the alternative was high voltage.

Thanks for informing me.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to Speedy Petey

said by Speedy Petey:

I CANNOT see where you would need 10k feet of Cat6.

If you put like 4 outlets in every room, and that the main router is located on the completely opposite end of the house, I could imagine it.

I bet he's doing 1-2 dedicated coax line per room as well.


rbnice1

join:2000-12-16
Fenton, MO
reply to pandora

We ran all our own low voltage in our new house and just doing 2 boxes in each room with 2 coax and 2 cat6 in each took almost 2000 foot of cat6. It adds up fast. And we only did 6 home runs up stairs, 3 for intercom, and 3 for network.


pandora
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reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

If you put like 4 outlets in every room, and that the main router is located on the completely opposite end of the house, I could imagine it.

I bet he's doing 1-2 dedicated coax line per room as well.

You are amazingly close. There are 4 outlets in each bedroom, each outlet has 7 Cat 6 and 3 Coax run to it. The average run is about 50-70' (more toward the center of the house).

Each room will have 28 Cat 6 and 12 RG 6 coax in 4 locations. The media area has 16 Cat 6 (in a 1U bracket) and 16 20 amp outlets connected via a home run to the breaker box, with 4 RG 6 Coax. Bathroom has 2 Cat 6, kitchen area has 2 Cat 6 to each of 3 outlets with 2 RG 6 Coax. Above each exterior door is both an RG 6 and a Cat 6 (allows me to run an IP or Coax camera over the doors).

It all comes to a demarcation area in my attic above the server / switch / router box (which is a 12U 19" wire mesh cage).

I wanted to demarc the old and new house without a powered switch, to help isolate any problems and to make it easier in the future to move stuff around.

In several media areas I currently have 3 8 port switches as there is only 1 ethernet jack, and am tired of the mess. In many areas I have either an 8 port or two 8 port switches. Even if the switches were moved to the attic, it would be less of a mess.

My thermostats were Wi-Fi, are now Z-Wave, my doors are Z-wave. The security system is going to run a lot of low voltage wire as well.

I suspect for the volume of the home it will have a greater density of copper than most copper mines.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
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reply to pandora

I can see how it would take this much.

To be future proof you want

4 CAT runs to each room for network devices and 2 coax runs to each room, I have needed as many as 3 coax runs to a room before, 1 for DirecTV, 1 for Over the Air Antenna, and 1 for Cable Internet.

I would also do some CAT3 runs for a wired phone system unless you're going to use IP phones.
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by TheTechGuru:

I can see how it would take this much.

To be future proof you want

4 CAT runs to each room for network devices and 2 coax runs to each room, I have needed as many as 3 coax runs to a room before, 1 for DirecTV, 1 for Over the Air Antenna, and 1 for Cable Internet.

I would also do some CAT3 runs for a wired phone system unless you're going to use IP phones.

That just seems so overkill. When i built, I ran most rooms with one coax drop, and a double drop in a few locations where I thought I might want to have the ability to move furniture and TV (used good quality coax, satellite-ready), and a telephone run to each room as well.

I have my cable modem and D-Link router centrally located servicing all wireless needs. I just couldn't justify all those drops and runs. To me, wireless with solid encryption seems to be the way to go... and requires no wiring upgrades for future-proofing.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Totally not overkill. I ran 4 Cat 6 ports to our living room media area and I'm running out of ports.

I have:
Smart TV
Network AV receiver
Game consoles (2)
Apple TV
BD player

And yes, I use all of them. That's 6 ports. I had to use a switch.

I'm not using wifi for these. I don't believe in using wifi for fixed devices and high bitrate streaming doesn't work reliably over wifi.


comp
Premium
join:2001-08-16
Evans City, PA

2 recommendations

reply to pandora

Sorry but there is No need for 28CAT6 cables in 1 room unless you are running server room



TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
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reply to pandora

Actually, these days, one should probably have as many RJ45 outlets as they have electrical outlets.

Soon your microwave, refrigerator, and washing machine will be connected to CAT5/RJ45.

If one is needing 8 links to a room that is far from the network closet I would run a 10G link between the network closet and room and use a gigabit switch to split the 10G connection to the devices in the room.
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

2 edits
reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:

Totally not overkill. I ran 4 Cat 6 ports to our living room media area and I'm running out of ports.

You're comparing the network capacity needs of a full-fledged entertainment center with that of a bedroom. Not exactly equal.
said by fifty nine:

I have:
Smart TV
Network AV receiver
Game consoles (2)
Apple TV
BD player

And yes, I use all of them. That's 6 ports. I had to use a switch.

You also have quite a bit of overlapping technology there and most people don't go for that level of redundancy. A network switch is the ideal solution in this scenario as you're not likely to be using more than 2 (or even 1) of those devices at a time in any high-bandwidth demand.
said by fifty nine:

I'm not using wifi for these. I don't believe in using wifi for fixed devices and high bitrate streaming doesn't work reliably over wifi.

"Not believing in using wifi" is a preference with no empirical data backing it up. Also you're missing out on one of the biggest selling points of the Apple TV: AirPlay.

I have to disagree and say this is a bit overkill. But to each his own. This is America, right? More is always better.

said by TheTechGuru:

Soon your microwave, refrigerator, and washing machine will be connected to CAT5/RJ45.

This line again? LOL. I've been hearing that for the better part of a decade now. Still waiting.

But when/if these appliances do arrive, will they really need the bandwidth of gigabit ethernet to function? I'm thinking wifi will be more than sufficient for them to blare intrusive advertisements at us after poring our grocery shopping habits (via NFC).

pandora
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reply to TheTechGuru

said by TheTechGuru:

Soon your microwave, refrigerator, and washing machine will be connected to CAT5/RJ45.

I tend to believe either hardwired or wireless, but my expectation is many large appliances will be net connected in the future. I'd like a fridge that could scan rfid products to provide inventory, meal suggestions, text family members when low on staples and let us know when something is near or past expiration date.

My home is likely to have in excess of 100 Cat 6 cable runs in it, all terminating in a common area above the server / router wall cabinet.

I wish PoE could run lights or low power PC's. I believe for fast, reliable streaming and connectivity, wired is better than wireless, but the house will have a number of PoE wireless access points built in as well.

4 thermostats are Z-Wave, and I'm trying a Z-wave door lock. I'd like to try a facial recognition system that works with alarm systems, the alarm protocol can be processed by Homeseer if I had time to write an application for it.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"

pandora
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reply to pike

said by pike:

You're comparing the network capacity needs of a full-fledged entertainment center with that of a bedroom. Not exactly equal.

Each of my kids has 1 Xbox 360, 1 PS3 (bc with PS2), 1 wii, 1 PC, and 1 smart TV, 1 wired VOIP device, 1 network connected DVR, in addition to 1 laptop (often used wirelessly), 1 tablet (also wireless). Some kids have a small network printer / scanner.

I can't be certain where the kids will want their stuff to plug in. Only active ethernet cables need to be connected to a switch. It is possible the majority of cables will be unused for long periods of time.

I'm very tired of messy 8 port unmanaged switches sitting on the floor in a room. They not only are an eyesore, but they take a power slot.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to pandora


--
CompTIA Network+ Certified


AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to pike

said by pike:

"Not believing in using wifi" is a preference with no empirical data backing it up. Also you're missing out on one of the biggest selling points of the Apple TV: AirPlay.

No, the differences in performance of a wired gigabit connection vs a 802.11n wireless connection are well documented - especially when dealing with video streams. The unknown is how 802.11ac will affect that comparison, but any comparison using the current revision will soon become obsolete with the next generation chips. Wireless provides convenience, it will never be able to match wired for performance - the only debatable fact is how much that matters.

AirPlay works just fine over a wired connection as well.

Speedy Petey

join:2008-01-19
reply to pandora

said by pandora:

You are amazingly close. There are 4 outlets in each bedroom, each outlet has 7 Cat 6 and 3 Coax run to it. The average run is about 50-70' (more toward the center of the house).

Each room will have 28 Cat 6 and 12 RG 6 coax in 4 locations.

HAHAHAHAHA

In a BEDROOM??
WHAT IN THE WORLD is your justification for this???

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

said by Speedy Petey:

WHAT IN THE WORLD is your justification for this???

A serious case of switchaphobia...


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

2 recommendations

reply to TheTechGuru

said by TheTechGuru:

Soon your microwave, refrigerator, and washing machine will be connected to CAT5/RJ45.

Actually no, they'll be on WiFi even with your picture proving wired > wireless. It's not like the washing machine will need to download/upload a 1080p copy of Avatar.


pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
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said by alkizmo:

Actually no, they'll be on WiFi even with your picture proving wired > wireless. It's not like the washing machine will need to download/upload a 1080p copy of Avatar.

It may not need to (and likely won't), BUT it WILL be accused of doing so.


TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
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reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

Actually no, they'll be on WiFi even with your picture proving wired > wireless. It's not like the washing machine will need to download/upload a 1080p copy of Avatar.

But that could be a major interference problem if one is in a apartment/condo complex and everyone in it has one.
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified

psiu

join:2004-01-20
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
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reply to pandora

Doing this stuff on a commercial/industrial scale makes 10K feet look pretty low-end

You can easily hit 100K...a full facility like a hospital will be in the 1M range no problem. Which is good--it's work

I only have 2 Cat5e/2 RG-6 to our 2 bedrooms, 2 Cat5e/3 RG-6 to living room, and more in the basement. And yeah, those are nowhere near sufficient. Of course, it's a rental townhouse...whoever moves in after we leave this spring should be pleasantly surprised.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to TheTechGuru

said by TheTechGuru:

But that could be a major interference problem if one is in a apartment/condo complex and everyone in it has one.

Wifi technology will adapt.
But you'll never see a fridge with RJ45.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to fifty nine

I have a DIR-655 router (which isn't even dual band), and I've streamed HD video alongside computer use with no problems. Then again, I don't have 17 Xboxes, 36 computers and 6 printers running simultaneously alongside the HD video.

For me, the convenience wins. Maybe I just don't have high demands of my equipment... but to each their own.



mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:12
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

Wifi technology will adapt.

It'll be too little too late. Around here, channels 8+ are completely unusable due to noise/interference, and there are well over a dozen access points within range on channels 1-7. Everyone's constantly having their devices kicked off for one reason or another. It's generally not too bad, but can be really annoying if you're in the middle of a game or streaming a movie or something. 5GHz "N" has been out for years now but the devices which support it are few and far between. 802.11ac is gonna do jack shit due to the sheer number of channels they're talking about bonding (it'll be just as congested as 2.4GHz is now).

said by alkizmo:

But you'll never see a fridge with RJ45.

Where technology is concerned, never say never. Or are you trying to say they'll skip the puny copper and go right to fiber?

/M

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

But you'll never see a fridge with RJ45.

»asia.cnet.com/lg-gr-d267dtu-inte···9200.htm

Your information is apparently already a decade out of date. While I do agree it's more likely wireless (802.11 or otherwise) will be more mainstream with kitchen appliances, never say never until doing a quick search.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by AVonGauss:

»asia.cnet.com/lg-gr-d267dtu-inte···9200.htm

Your information is apparently already a decade out of date. While I do agree it's more likely wireless (802.11 or otherwise) will be more mainstream with kitchen appliances, never say never until doing a quick search.

OH effing PLEASE
That's an exception.
AND it's from 2002, when RJ45 for networking made more sense

TheMG
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Canada
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reply to pandora

Considering the low cost of small, unmanaged gigabit switches these days, I would never run so many cables to the same room. A couple of jacks is enough, then a network switch if any more are needed.

Hint: you can get a 5-port gigE switch for $20. Probably cheaper than the cost of those 26 redundant runs of CAT6!



Jack_in_VA
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North, VA
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reply to Speedy Petey

said by Speedy Petey:

said by pandora:

You are amazingly close. There are 4 outlets in each bedroom, each outlet has 7 Cat 6 and 3 Coax run to it. The average run is about 50-70' (more toward the center of the house).

Each room will have 28 Cat 6 and 12 RG 6 coax in 4 locations.

HAHAHAHAHA

In a BEDROOM??
WHAT IN THE WORLD is your justification for this???

+1

I have better things to do in the bedroom that doesn't require 28 cat 6 and 12 RG-6 coax in four locations. One location is sufficient.

comp
Premium
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Evans City, PA
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reply to TheMG

said by TheMG:

Considering the low cost of small, unmanaged gigabit switches these days, I would never run so many cables to the same room. A couple of jacks is enough, then a network switch if any more are needed.

Hint: you can get a 5-port gigE switch for $20. Probably cheaper than the cost of those 26 redundant runs of CAT6!

You are 100% right there. I am currently using MOCA in almost every room and have a 4 port switch there. With all of the HD Video streaming and whatever else, There has never been a speed issue... And the cost was less then 50 bucks per room