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TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
kudos:2
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reply to pandora

Re: My addition will take almost 2 miles of Cat 6

I can see how it would take this much.

To be future proof you want

4 CAT runs to each room for network devices and 2 coax runs to each room, I have needed as many as 3 coax runs to a room before, 1 for DirecTV, 1 for Over the Air Antenna, and 1 for Cable Internet.

I would also do some CAT3 runs for a wired phone system unless you're going to use IP phones.
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by TheTechGuru:

I can see how it would take this much.

To be future proof you want

4 CAT runs to each room for network devices and 2 coax runs to each room, I have needed as many as 3 coax runs to a room before, 1 for DirecTV, 1 for Over the Air Antenna, and 1 for Cable Internet.

I would also do some CAT3 runs for a wired phone system unless you're going to use IP phones.

That just seems so overkill. When i built, I ran most rooms with one coax drop, and a double drop in a few locations where I thought I might want to have the ability to move furniture and TV (used good quality coax, satellite-ready), and a telephone run to each room as well.

I have my cable modem and D-Link router centrally located servicing all wireless needs. I just couldn't justify all those drops and runs. To me, wireless with solid encryption seems to be the way to go... and requires no wiring upgrades for future-proofing.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Totally not overkill. I ran 4 Cat 6 ports to our living room media area and I'm running out of ports.

I have:
Smart TV
Network AV receiver
Game consoles (2)
Apple TV
BD player

And yes, I use all of them. That's 6 ports. I had to use a switch.

I'm not using wifi for these. I don't believe in using wifi for fixed devices and high bitrate streaming doesn't work reliably over wifi.



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

2 edits

said by fifty nine:

Totally not overkill. I ran 4 Cat 6 ports to our living room media area and I'm running out of ports.

You're comparing the network capacity needs of a full-fledged entertainment center with that of a bedroom. Not exactly equal.
said by fifty nine:

I have:
Smart TV
Network AV receiver
Game consoles (2)
Apple TV
BD player

And yes, I use all of them. That's 6 ports. I had to use a switch.

You also have quite a bit of overlapping technology there and most people don't go for that level of redundancy. A network switch is the ideal solution in this scenario as you're not likely to be using more than 2 (or even 1) of those devices at a time in any high-bandwidth demand.
said by fifty nine:

I'm not using wifi for these. I don't believe in using wifi for fixed devices and high bitrate streaming doesn't work reliably over wifi.

"Not believing in using wifi" is a preference with no empirical data backing it up. Also you're missing out on one of the biggest selling points of the Apple TV: AirPlay.

I have to disagree and say this is a bit overkill. But to each his own. This is America, right? More is always better.

said by TheTechGuru:

Soon your microwave, refrigerator, and washing machine will be connected to CAT5/RJ45.

This line again? LOL. I've been hearing that for the better part of a decade now. Still waiting.

But when/if these appliances do arrive, will they really need the bandwidth of gigabit ethernet to function? I'm thinking wifi will be more than sufficient for them to blare intrusive advertisements at us after poring our grocery shopping habits (via NFC).

pandora
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said by pike:

You're comparing the network capacity needs of a full-fledged entertainment center with that of a bedroom. Not exactly equal.

Each of my kids has 1 Xbox 360, 1 PS3 (bc with PS2), 1 wii, 1 PC, and 1 smart TV, 1 wired VOIP device, 1 network connected DVR, in addition to 1 laptop (often used wirelessly), 1 tablet (also wireless). Some kids have a small network printer / scanner.

I can't be certain where the kids will want their stuff to plug in. Only active ethernet cables need to be connected to a switch. It is possible the majority of cables will be unused for long periods of time.

I'm very tired of messy 8 port unmanaged switches sitting on the floor in a room. They not only are an eyesore, but they take a power slot.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to pike

said by pike:

"Not believing in using wifi" is a preference with no empirical data backing it up. Also you're missing out on one of the biggest selling points of the Apple TV: AirPlay.

No, the differences in performance of a wired gigabit connection vs a 802.11n wireless connection are well documented - especially when dealing with video streams. The unknown is how 802.11ac will affect that comparison, but any comparison using the current revision will soon become obsolete with the next generation chips. Wireless provides convenience, it will never be able to match wired for performance - the only debatable fact is how much that matters.

AirPlay works just fine over a wired connection as well.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to fifty nine

I have a DIR-655 router (which isn't even dual band), and I've streamed HD video alongside computer use with no problems. Then again, I don't have 17 Xboxes, 36 computers and 6 printers running simultaneously alongside the HD video.

For me, the convenience wins. Maybe I just don't have high demands of my equipment... but to each their own.


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to pike

said by pike:

"Not believing in using wifi" is a preference with no empirical data backing it up. Also you're missing out on one of the biggest selling points of the Apple TV: AirPlay.

I think there is data to back it up. Multiple streams of HD are problematic for a wireless network. I have an InfiniTV in my computer with a couple of Xboxes as extenders and recently have added a couple of Ceton Echos. The Xboxes don't really like wireless and the new Echos are hardline only. Why mess with multiple wireless devices for something like TV when the wired solution is problem free?

Regardless of what they call it, you can't watch live TV on Apple TV.


Bruschi
Premium
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to pandora

said by pandora:

Each of my kids has 1 Xbox 360, 1 PS3 (bc with PS2), 1 wii, 1 PC, and 1 smart TV, 1 wired VOIP device, 1 network connected DVR, in addition to 1 laptop (often used wirelessly), 1 tablet (also wireless). Some kids have a small network printer / scanner.

I can't be certain where the kids will want their stuff to plug in. Only active ethernet cables need to be connected to a switch. It is possible the majority of cables will be unused for long periods of time.

I'm very tired of messy 8 port unmanaged switches sitting on the floor in a room. They not only are an eyesore, but they take a power slot.

Wait so each kid has that right? Ok I get it know, with that much cable you must be the Duggars
--
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robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

I find it interesting that people don't understand the reason for multiple connections in a room (not that the OP hasn't gone to an extreme). I have rent houses which have two or three Cat5 in some bedrooms. Not all rooms have only one way to arrange the furniture. Much easier to put in a few extra so you can put the bed where ever you want instead of "well, the bed has to be here because the TV can only be over there". The time to do it is when the walls are open. The price of copper is the cheap part of the process.


comp
Premium
join:2001-08-16
Evans City, PA

1 recommendation

Two or three is fine.. 28 is a different story


Speedy Petey

join:2008-01-19

2 recommendations

reply to pandora

said by pandora:

Each of my kids has 1 Xbox 360, 1 PS3 (bc with PS2), 1 wii, 1 PC, and 1 smart TV, 1 wired VOIP device, 1 network connected DVR, in addition to 1 laptop (often used wirelessly), 1 tablet (also wireless). Some kids have a small network printer / scanner.

I can't be certain where the kids will want their stuff to plug in. Only active ethernet cables need to be connected to a switch. It is possible the majority of cables will be unused for long periods of time.

I'm very tired of messy 8 port unmanaged switches sitting on the floor in a room. They not only are an eyesore, but they take a power slot.

EACH kid??? This make it all clearer.
Basically you are telling us that your kids are profoundly spoiled and that's the reason for all that cable.

pandora
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reply to SwedishRider

said by SwedishRider:

I have a DIR-655 router (which isn't even dual band), and I've streamed HD video alongside computer use with no problems. Then again, I don't have 17 Xboxes, 36 computers and 6 printers running simultaneously alongside the HD video.

For me, the convenience wins. Maybe I just don't have high demands of my equipment... but to each their own.

I tried a Vizio smart HDTV via wireless where my router was about 1' away from the TV. I couldn't stream HD video from Hulu Plus or Amazon without buffering issues. Amazon was smart enough to suggest switching to standard definition.

I wish wireless worked better, but for sustained HD streams, it's tough in my experience.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to pike

said by pike:

You also have quite a bit of overlapping technology there and most people don't go for that level of redundancy. A network switch is the ideal solution in this scenario as you're not likely to be using more than 2 (or even 1) of those devices at a time in any high-bandwidth demand.

I don't like using switches. I like everything home run. That way upgrading to a newer technology like 10 gig is easy, just replace the main switch and I'm done.

There's overlap but each device has services that the other doesn't have. The Smart TV has amazon instant video, while Apple obviously doesn't. Apple TV has AirPlay mirroring, the network receiver has siriusXM streaming radio and the XBOX is used for windows media center. The nice thing about the network receiver is I can leave the TV off while listening to the streaming radio.

My blu-ray player doesn't have streaming but it has bd-live. BD also requires periodic firmware updates to play newer discs. It's easier to do this over the network.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to pandora

For new constructions I can understand multiple outlets per room, maybe one per wall.

Eventually it's overkill to put multiple outlets per wall in a bedroom. You don't like switches but I'm sure that a switch can easily fit in the same shelf as the PS3, Xbox360, Wii, TV, etc etc.

Laptops typically run on WiFi, you can plug them in, but who bothers?

For existing constructions, the effort to get one outlet per bedroom is already a lot, so there's no point to go ahead and put a ton unless you KNOW you need them at said specific location.

MatrixHDV, what program is that? Can it be run on a router? Im curious of what noise is around my house, even if it's a single detached home with brick walls.


ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
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reply to pandora

said by pandora:

I tried a Vizio smart HDTV via wireless where my router was about 1' away from the TV. I couldn't stream HD video from Hulu Plus or Amazon without buffering issues. Amazon was smart enough to suggest switching to standard definition.

I wish wireless worked better, but for sustained HD streams, it's tough in my experience.

Get a better access point.

ke4pym
Premium
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Charlotte, NC
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reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:

I don't like using switches. I like everything home run. That way upgrading to a newer technology like 10 gig is easy, just replace the main switch and I'm done.

Wish you the best on getting 10G on CAT6.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

MatrixHDV, what program is that? Can it be run on a router? Im curious of what noise is around my house, even if it's a single detached home with brick walls.

Not sure if the dongle is still available but it probably can be had from e-bay used or maybe another type USB dongle might work but the app can be downloaded here.

»www.ubnt.com/airview/downloads
»www.ubnt.com/airview

pandora
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reply to ke4pym

said by ke4pym:

Get a better access point.

Most of the wire is run and there is no problem (for me).

My cost will be approximately $4,000 for installation and $1,000 - $1,200 for all cables and connectors once it's all up. I'm comfortable with this. Others may not be. The server cost $600, I'll probably be paying nearly 1K per 48 port switch x 1 or 2. Cameras run $100 a piece times about 9.

In each bedroom, I anticipate one nearly full box of 7 Ethernet connectors used, and the other boxes mostly unused. I will only connect active cable to a switch (aside for testing).

I have yet to get very good streaming from any access point, and when multiple devices are streaming, failure is always the result.

You may have a different situation and better experience. For me, this is a solution that works. I was just amazed to think of wires by the mile instead of by the foot or meter which is how I usually think of them.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

2 recommendations

said by pandora:

I was just amazed to think of wires by the mile instead of by the foot or meter which is how I usually think of them.

That's OK, we were all amazed by 7 network cable runs per wall plate....


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to pike

How effective would be networking over a powerline be?
I use that in my home, but it's only hooked up to a roku player and a computer.
Hence I seldom notice any speed issues.
I have the power line adaptor connected to a switch, then the PC and roku device are connected to the switch.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to ke4pym

said by ke4pym:

said by fifty nine:

I don't like using switches. I like everything home run. That way upgrading to a newer technology like 10 gig is easy, just replace the main switch and I'm done.

Wish you the best on getting 10G on CAT6.

Technically I have 6A but the way I have it setup I can upgrade the cabling easily and even run fiber if I wanted to.

I doubt I'll be going 10 gig anytime soon but I'm relatively future proof.

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to TheTechGuru

said by TheTechGuru:

I would also do some CAT3 runs for a wired phone system unless you're going to use IP phones.

with 28 runs of cat6, he certainly can use one for phone either POTS or Voip based....