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Rexter
YeeHaw

join:2002-11-17
cloud 9

VPN providers being sued?

There are more than a few torrent friendly VPN providers out there. Before I sign up, and pay for one, I'd like your take on how well this works. How safe is it, and if I pay for a whole year, do I stand a good chance of the VPN provider being sued out of existence and taking my subscription fee with them?
--
I'm with the Central Government. I'm here to help you. Now bend over, really, I'm helping you, just, just stay still. You'll feel better in a moment.

jimboe

join:2000-08-14
New York
should not your primary concern be whether or not your personal info is divulged?


Rexter
YeeHaw

join:2002-11-17
cloud 9
Well yea, that's the question. They claim to not keep logs, but which can you trust. I was looking seriously at IBVPN, but when I went to check out they said that if you are using another VPN or anon service during the check out your purchase will be flagged as fraud, and canceled. Of course they will see my real IP when I connect, but why do they demand it during purchase?
--
I'm with the Central Government. I'm here to help you. Now bend over, really, I'm helping you, just, just stay still. You'll feel better in a moment.

ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO
Probably to protect from fraudsters.. aka.. people who want to commit fraud sign up already ‘hiding’

If it bothers you so much.. go signup from a mcdonalds or wireless café..


Rexter
YeeHaw

join:2002-11-17
cloud 9
I just though it was a bit interesting. Like I said, they'll have my real IP every time I connect. Anyone know how well such a service works?. Why don't the AA's(asses) go after the VPN providers, especially ones like IBVPN who advertise Bittorrent friendly?
--
I'm with the Central Government. I'm here to help you. Now bend over, really, I'm helping you, just, just stay still. You'll feel better in a moment.


Kosh
We are all Kosh
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Z'ha'dum
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
said by Rexter:

Why don't the AA's(asses) go after the VPN providers, especially ones like IBVPN who advertise Bittorrent friendly?

I'm not totally sure, and for all we know, some VPNs are being sued right now....but my best guess is because any VPN has significant applications for non-infringing use (anonymity, bypassing ISP/national censors, accessing data normally only available to users in a certain country (hulu), etc.). I believe this is the logic that saved the Betamax format in the 1980s.

Even if someone signs up for a VPN that bills itself as "torrent-friendly", it's hard to prove in court that the entire userbase is using it for illegal filesharing.

And, there is lower-lying fruit out there at the moment (warez bulletin boards, cyberlockers, etc.)
--
"I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly losing its understanding of being human." - John Trudell

brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL
kudos:1
reply to jimboe
It does not matter if your personal information is not given out. If you are obtaining an IP Address from your ISP. They can always go back during the time and date when you obtained that IP address and found out who you are.

knarf829

join:2007-06-02
kudos:1
reply to Rexter
said by Rexter:

Well yea, that's the question. They claim to not keep logs, but which can you trust

»torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-provi···-111007/

jimboe

join:2000-08-14
New York
reply to brianiscool
said by brianiscool:

It does not matter if your personal information is not given out. If you are obtaining an IP Address from your ISP. They can always go back during the time and date when you obtained that IP address and found out who you are.

well thats what I meant- will the vpn give up your ip addy...


Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

2 edits
reply to brianiscool
said by brianiscool:

It does not matter if your personal information is not given out. If you are obtaining an IP Address from your ISP. They can always go back during the time and date when you obtained that IP address and found out who you are.

Well, the whole point of VPN when it comes to torrenting is that "copyright police" will get the IP that you got from your VPN carrier as opposed to that from your ISP; and then the VPN provider is the one who gets a subpoena. From here, it all depends on how "cooperative" that VPN provider will be. Obviously, if they indeed keep no logs as they say they do, they will have no info to give back to the MAFIAA. And if there is no data retention law in the country where they operate from, they cannot be legally forced to log.

When you are VPN'd in, all your ISP will see is encrypted traffic between you and your VPN host. Not enough to prove you wrong in court.
--
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill...

ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO
I believe it's probably possible for you to run your own vpn/ssh forwarding through your own server (co-located or dedicated) or through the vps servers.. (meaning you can make sure said logs are deleted ) but whether your host/data center keeps IP logs is also a 'different story'

Couldn't you run usenet data through the 'tor' network..? I assume so..

burger eater

join:2011-05-20
Don't do it. Tor isn't meant for heavy use.


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
said by burger eater:

Don't do it. Tor isn't meant for heavy use.

I can't even get it to serve web pages reliably most of the time. High traffic apps definitely hurts the network.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

burger eater

join:2011-05-20

1 edit
reply to Rexter
Which VPN providers log? I'd assume all, even "torrent friendly" ones. I wouldn't trust any.

If you're worried about bare torrenting from VPN, here's a better setup: You-> VPN-> SeedBox.

Only connect to the seedbox via VPN. Download finished torrents from the seedbox via VPN. Assuming you paid for the seedbox via the VPN using hard to trace currency (bitcoins,etc), they don't know who you are and the VPN provider won't know what the hell you're downloading, if you used SSL. You could even add an extra VPN.

ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO
reply to Rexter
Reason I hate SSL and usenet.. is that encryption loses you mbit (perhaps when I get google fiber.. I won't care )

Does make me wonder though.. wonder if vpn's lose mbit too?


HonEkut

join:2002-03-19
Scotch Plains, NJ
reply to Rexter
Here is a good article on VPN logs and what each service has to say about them.

»torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-provi···-111007/

oops ... I see it was already posted ... sorry !

Jessica19

join:2012-08-24
reply to Rexter
Definitely use non-logging vpn. There is a list of no log vpn providers on vpn verge. »vpnverge.com/why-no-log-vpn/ It looks like most of them support Torrenting. Some of the sites look really crappy though.


BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
reply to HonEkut
WOT poor reputation

Rojo

join:2009-04-14
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Rexter
What I've yet to see confirmed or denied by someone who is in the biz is: are USA vpn's and nsp's mandated by law to keep user logs?

Been waiting years to see this addressed authoritatively and definitively. . . but it never happens.


juilinsandar
Texas Gooner
Premium
join:2000-07-17
San Benito, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to ophelus
said by ophelus:

Reason I hate SSL and usenet.. is that encryption loses you mbit (perhaps when I get google fiber.. I won't care )

Does make me wonder though.. wonder if vpn's lose mbit too?

I use ssl usenet all the time. I max out my line with no problems.
--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Sir Winston Churchill

MagnusNO

join:2013-03-04
reply to Rexter
So far I haven't heard of providers being sued. Only providers that log your VPN activity even have anything to provide to law enforcement, such as HideMyAss (»vpnverge.com/truths-about-hidemyass/) -> read the explanation at the bottom of the article.
After the LulzSec case many VPN providers started to rethink their logging policies, and some chose not to keep logs or purge them frequently enough so individual users could not be identified.

The real question now is what happens when a provider gets a request for information (whatever that may be called in a particular country) and doesn't have any information to show for. Can the provider be compelled to keep logs to comply?


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Rojo
said by Rojo:

What I've yet to see confirmed or denied by someone who is in the biz is: are USA vpn's and nsp's mandated by law to keep user logs?

Been waiting years to see this addressed authoritatively and definitively. . . but it never happens.

Probably because it would require an attorney with experience in laws regulating ISPs to provide an authoritative answer.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Rojo
said by Rojo:

What I've yet to see confirmed or denied by someone who is in the biz is: are USA VPN's and NSP's mandated by law to keep user logs?

Been waiting years to see this addressed authoritatively and definitively...but it never happens.

According to the above-referenced TorrentFreak article, if you look at responses from US-based VPN providers (Private Internet Access, IPVanish), there are no mandatory data retention requirements here. Which is why they claim that they don't keep any logs.

Of course, the way things are going, many (myself included) think that it's only a matter of time before something requiring mandatory data retention gets passed here in the US.

Another thing is that this article is dated as of October 2011, so around a year and a half has passed since the time it was written.
--
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill...


NewsgroupRev
Premium
join:2008-06-25
TorrentFreak released an updated list with more info over the weekend:
»torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-th···-130302/

They went back and asked more privacy related questions. Along with DMCA procedures and a question related to the the anonymity of their payment systems.

- VPNSP
VPN Services