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Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a

Stock vs Cross Drilled or Slotted Brake Rotors

I am taking a high speed driving course in the near future. A club here lets you run your car on tracks such as Sebring, Homestead etc.
I plan on keeping the car for just such purposes and modding as budget allows.
I was advised to drain and upgrade the brake fluid because many cars boil the fluid under such braking conditions. Since my rotors need replacing anyways I was debating stepping up to slotted or drilled rotors and better pads.
Are these rotors more prone to fading and warping or do they work in shedding heat faster than stock?


Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

Last summer I was guest at a club event at the local roadrace course. From what I gleaned though conversation and observation, there is no money better spent than on the brakes. A close second is suspension.
Run the best you can afford. Slotting and drilling is all about shedding heat to avoid the fade and warping you mentioned.
Ask club member what their prep/maintenance budget is on a per weekend basis for brakes, tires fuel etc. The answer may surprise you.



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to Rifleman

said by Rifleman:

Are these rotors more prone to fading and warping or do they work in shedding heat faster than stock?

There's no such thing as "warping" brake rotors

ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
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reply to Tig

said by Tig:

Slotting and drilling is all about shedding heat to avoid the fade and warping you mentioned.

Common misconception. Slotting/drilling isn't for cooling. It is to remove the gas buildup between the brake pad and the rotor. Thereby providing better grip between the two.

Here's a quick write up on it:
»www.brakeworld.com/slotted-rotors.asp


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2

And, in the case of drilled rotors, it reduces unsprung weight.



MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
reply to Rifleman

What kind of car do you have? Some brakes are better than others even from the factory.
--
John M - Cranky network guy



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to Rifleman

I have taken a few HPDEs with 2 cars and from talking to people - a general car would be FAR better outfited with brake ducts than slotted and cross drilled rotors.

Get better pads without a doubt. Do NOT go to a track pad as they will be terrible cold. Go one down from that - I use Performance Friction Z pads and like them a lot (I use them year round).
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain



Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18

1 edit
reply to Rifleman

I recommend going with bigger brake rotors with larger Aluminum calipers with more pistons. 4 piston and 6 piston calipers grab harder/longer with less effort than single or dual piston calipers and are usually lighter which reduces unsprung weight which increases handling. You may also need to Plus 1 size or Plus 2 size your tire/rim combo if the new brakes are too large for your current setup.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to Rifleman

Just tie an anchor to the car, and throw it out the window when you need to stop.



Crash Gordon
Drive It Like You Stole It

join:2004-06-08
Smyrna, GA

1 edit
reply to Rifleman

Is this a dedicated track car? NO street aka daily driver use?
Or is it a daily driver now, thats being slowly converted to track only?

That answer will depend on what's best (also make/model).

For performance reasons, drilled & slotted rotors are the choice because of reasons posted above. (Less weight, gas dispersion).

On my (daily driver/weekend race car) 2005 Z4 3L I put Brembo GT 320mm kits all around and switch out the pads for track days/PCA (Porsche Club@Road Atlanta) events with track only pads. Once up to proper temps, track only pads work well, they WILL suck for daily use because you can't get them to maintain the proper temps.

@Tig: My weekend expenses (brakes, tires, fuel) are around $1000-1200 That doesn't count any entry fees, repairs, fixes, making sure it'll make it back-n-forth to work on Monday.



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
reply to Juggernaut

said by Juggernaut:

And, in the case of drilled rotors, it reduces unsprung weight.

Isn't this just a couple of ounces? Is this difference even noticeable?


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2

If I recall correctly, mild steel weighs .2833 pounds per cubic inch... so, depending on the drill pattern and size, it could reduce weight by a fair amount. When you apply that to the physics of the response time, it indeed makes a big difference.
--
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots." ~ Albert Einstein



Crash Gordon
Drive It Like You Stole It

join:2004-06-08
Smyrna, GA

1 edit
reply to Steve

said by Steve:

said by Juggernaut:

And, in the case of drilled rotors, it reduces unsprung weight.

Isn't this just a couple of ounces? Is this difference even noticeable?

In racing, every ounce makes a difference.
Save a couple ounces here, a few there, it'll add up.

Even if you add the same weight back with ballast, you can place that weight where you want.


Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a
reply to Rifleman

It's a 2005 Focus ST daily driver being converted very slowly to track car. CrashG's budget at a weekend is half my monthly income--lol.
Central Florida Motorsports has some performance parts I was planning on ordering there.
Seeing the cost is sobering though. I don't want to win---just have a good time without holding up faster cars.



Crash Gordon
Drive It Like You Stole It

join:2004-06-08
Smyrna, GA

1 recommendation

reply to Rifleman

Racing isn't cheap. Even for what I spend, I'm not even close to the fastest in my class (PCA Group 3), upper/mid-pack and been racing at RA (on-off) for about 15 years.

You can still have a good time, it's really not about what you brought/how fast you went. But did you have fun?

Push yourself/vehicle to the limit, but know that limit and don't exceed it. Or you might end up with "Crash" as your nickname too.



Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a

Thanks for the advice. I'll go with slotted rotors and street--track pads.
The car is a good candidate I think because it's light--around 2800 pounds, has a flat torque output and responds easily to engine mods. The suspension comes from the Euro spec Focus----which was around 300HP I think. There's a turbo and intercooler kit out for it as well.
I'll try a few novice events and if I still think it's something I want to do----I'll leave the car here in storage and get another DD back home.



Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a

1 edit
reply to Rifleman

I'm gonna go with these-----just had the rears done stock so will upgrade them down the road.
»focus.c-f-m.com/ebcfrontdimpleda···s-1.aspx
»focus.c-f-m.com/ebcredstuffrearb···cus.aspx
Here's a vid I found with an ST on the track. Sounds stock. Looks fun and slow from watching but bet things seem faster behind the wheel!

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=C80fsvz2Lpk


Crash Gordon
Drive It Like You Stole It

join:2004-06-08
Smyrna, GA

1 recommendation

Yeah, sounds like it could be a fun car, with plenty of options down the road.

I'm fairly sure you'll enjoy it, but it's a expensive hobby. I don't run as much as I used to, mainly due to having other event duties while at the track, but I still get out there every chance I can.

In that vid it's also VERY wet, so it'd be wise to go a bit slower.

At last years Oct. PCA Drivers Ed. Porsche brought two new Cayman R with pro drivers that you could get a track tour with. It was a blast even just riding shotgun. Riding with a pro driver showed me a few things. The driver the wife and I rode with was Cass Whitehead.


The wife was a little freaked out, she'd never been that fast (about 180 down to the breaking area for 10A at Road Atlanta) before.


NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Rifleman

I upgraded the pads and rotors on my Fusion to EBC slotted rotors and Hawk HPS pads and even on the street it feels like the best $1,100 I ever spent on my car. Given that an AWD Fusion weighs 3,600lbs before even my lard ass is in the car, better brakes are a must.

On the track I do a yearly event to force myself to push my eyes down the track (and by extension the road) Nothing gives you a wakeup call faster than Moss Corner @ Mosport if you aren't looking ahead and planning.

NefCanuck



Crash Gordon
Drive It Like You Stole It

join:2004-06-08
Smyrna, GA

One of the first things I was taught was to "look where you're going to be, not where you're at". I use that in everyday driving too (one reason I hate being behind a SUV or other large vehicle). I can't see far enough up the road to suit me.

To my post above: Ha, just happened to get a good shot of the front rotor of the Cayman S. Yep, it's slotted and drilled.



Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

said by Crash Gordon:

One of the first things I was taught was to "look where you're going to be, not where you're at". I use that in everyday driving too (one reason I hate being behind a SUV or other large vehicle). I can't see far enough up the road to suit me.

Here in CT it's rare to see anyone look behind the front of the hood, I should get $5 for every time I see people just slam on the brakes because they did not look up a simple 3 car lengths ahead.
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!



Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2

That isn't confined just to CT. It's everywhere these days.



Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

said by Juggernaut:

That isn't confined just to CT. It's everywhere these days.

True.. but when you mix with impatient NY drivers they don't care.

It's like why if you move out of the lane (lets say the 3rd lane) and you have a car behind you, why do they speed up to only follow 2-3 seconds behind the car in front of them? I don't think I've ever seen a person not speed up to close a gap only to hit the brakes.. why not keep the same following distance?
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!



Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2

Same with the driver's here. I have to wonder when I see people pass me to get to a red light, as I glide toward it.

They're stopped as I go by at 25 mph.



Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

haha same here, and since I take the same way most of the time and arrive about the same time you know how long a light is, I've notice in some sections it's timed for a 40 mph speed limit.

I'm not sure about Kelowna but a few people here will run redlights but running as in they are already red but they just go anyways.



Juggernaut
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Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Whoa! Not too many here do that, but I always wait for 3 seconds after green just in case. Saved my ass a few times.



Crash Gordon
Drive It Like You Stole It

join:2004-06-08
Smyrna, GA
reply to Rifleman

As I'm approaching a red light I usually try to glance at the light from the left/right or the crossing signal to see if it's changing or about to change.

Yeah, I look for people running the light too. Just because my light is green doesn't always mean it's safe to go.



Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

I always say they tend to make their own driving rules here.. but you know the funniest thing is they will do a full stop for a yeld sign (almost rear ended someone) but not stop for a simple stop sign..

Or today I was driving to the bank after work and the street light had went out but then came back on so it needed to be reset so the main road had the flashing yellow and the side road had flashing red.. the drivers all had the WTF to do look... It's so simple if the side road has cars and already in the intersection then you yield to them not try to cut in front of them..

I swear I will be getting a dash mounted camera because some of this stuff is like basic driving stuff.
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!


bgraham

join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
reply to Juggernaut

Subaru is correct. Here in New York they say a red light is not red until the bulb is warm.

Last year we just started getting red light cameras. Some idiots who got tickets started to complain that stopping for a red light was dangerous because you could get rear ended.



Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

I wish they would get red light cameras here.. this one intersection here.. I just don't understand.. OK so you can't wait for the next cycle change.. So lets have friken 4 cars keep making a left turn on red while everyone else who has the green wait for you to make your turn..

I drive around in Westchester county sometimes and they are far better IMHO.