 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8
 ·Charter
 ·surpasshosting
 ·voip.ms
| Brand names I've noticed something when I'm shopping for tools and supplies. Many old brand names that were standard setters in quality have just gone to complete crap in the past few years.
Remember when Black & Decker would get you a good quality drill or jigsaw?
How about Hunter fans? Craftsman? Stanley? Milwaukee? G.E.? Lithonia? Levi's? Carhartt? Redwing? Zenith? GM? Westinghouse? BlackBerry? Kodak?
It seems like the most valuable asset these companies have anymore is a bygone reputation. I know, a lot of these brands were sold to foreign companies strictly for the value of name recognition. I wonder how long they can milk it?
Not really asking much here. Just spurring some discussion.
I was just shopping for a new cordless tool setup (the whole shebang), and it seems like even when I spend $1,000.00, my options are pretty much limited to crap.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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| Yes, these days the choice is either cheap crap or expensive crap. After many cheap household coffee makers, I decided to purchase a commercial Bunn. The stupid thing leaked water everywhere. It turns out that the nuts that secure and seal the submersible heating element were never tightened. So much for American QC.  |
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 mattmagPremium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3 | reply to nunya
Back in my automotive shop days, my absolute favorite "workhorse" was my Chicago Pneumatic 1/2" air impact wrench. There wasn't much that thing wouldn't bust loose. I bought it around 1980, and it was a real piece of workmanship. I bought another in 1985, and it was just as good.
Something happened then in the late 80's.... Unbeknown to me, CP was sold, and more than once.
I wanted another one for my growing business, and I was eager to get the new tool working hard in my shop. What a disaster that was-- it had far less power than the originals, and just plain felt "cheesy" to use. In exactly 2 weeks, it spit the guts of the air motor right out the side of it. Realizing that good-old Chicago Pneumatic was now "China Pneumatic", I tossed the pieces in the trash and that was the end of it.
I kept using the "real" ones for many more years, and I still have the first one I bought here at home now. There simply isn't any substitute for things that were made here by people who truly wanted them to last, and had the reputation to go along with it. |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey | reply to nunya
You can thank Wal-Mart. |
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| I know for hand tools im not a huge fan of stanley anymore but Chanell lock still seems great. Old appliance names like RCA, Sunbeam, GE, Moffat, Litton, Inglis, etc are all made by others under licence these days, so brands dont mean anything anymore in consumer grade product...
its sad |
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 stevek1949We're not in Kansas anymore
join:2002-11-13
Virginia Beach, VA | reply to nunya
I am not sure that we didn't contribute to the downfall of quality to ourselves. Just a quick perusal of the forums on DSLR will show any number of people asking for cheapest this, cheaper that, including labor on any project.
I have always been of the mindset of you get what you pay for. If I am going to use a tool for a single job, I don't mind getting the store brand from Walmart knowing that it was probably China made. But if I want it to last, I will use my stash of older tools.
I do not search Craigslist for an "electrician" if I need a project done correctly. But that is just me, YMMV. |
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 ChinaboundPremium
join:2002-12-21
Antioch, IL
kudos:3 | reply to mattmag
said by mattmag: Realizing that good-old Chicago Pneumatic was now "China Pneumatic", I tossed the pieces in the trash and that was the end of it.
Most people here will say I'm full of shit.... but here goes.
If you purchase a pneumatic wrench at a tool store in China, it will be of the highest quality you've seen.
I make a rather comfortable living selling Chinese made items. I began this business with my wife after my second visit to China to get married in 2000. The first thing I noticed as I walked into various stores in her hometown was the high quality of everything. Clothes, tools, kitchen items (especially cutlery), appliances, toys, women's accessories - it didn't matter. Everything was high quality, and the prices were very reasonable for all of these things. That's when I had the idea to start our business. I went from making a decent living in the printing industry (18 years total), to making a much better living selling the items we sell.
My wife has the connections to obtain what we sell, and I created the means to sell them. My only wish is that I had discovered this sooner.
I have to head out the door soon, so I won't be able to reply to anyone who doubts me until tonight, or tomorrow morning should I have a busy day today - which I will.
But I assure you, the crap they export (by following the specs they are given, btw) are not the same items they use for themselves. |
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guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by Chinabound:But I assure you, the crap they export (by following the specs they are given, btw) are not the same items they use for themselves.
Which just shows its the retailers, looking for the maximum profit that choose what is sold. When enough retailer do it, they all have to do the same or go out of business.
The issue isn't the sellers, its the buyers ... and its pretty much now a given that while people bitch and moan about quality, they purchase by price. The only ones to blame are themselves |
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 pikePremium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3 | reply to Bob
said by Bob:You can thank Wal-Mart.
said by stevek1949:I am not sure that we didn't contribute to the downfall of quality to ourselves. Just a quick perusal of the forums on DSLR will show any number of people asking for cheapest this, cheaper that, including labor on any project.
I hate Wal Mart as much as the next guy, and avoid it like the plague, but I concur with stevek1949  here. Wal Mart is simply the facilitator of people's demand for cheap shit.
The manufacturers, including the ones nunya listed, faced a decision: lower their prices (and subsequently their quality) in order to get their products in Wal Mart and Home Depot, or close shop.
If people would have continued demanding high quality stuff, and most importantly continued to pay for it, it would still be around. |
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 dennismurphyPut me on hold? I'll put YOU on holdPremium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
·Verizon FiOS
·Optimum Online
| reply to Bob
said by Bob:You can thank Wal-Mart.
Bingo!
Great article, although a few years old ...
»www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-wh···wal-mart |
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 CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | reply to stevek1949
quote:
I am not sure that we didn't contribute to the downfall of quality to ourselves. Just a quick perusal of the forums on DSLR will show any number of people asking for cheapest this, cheaper that, including labor on any project.
That is the other side of the equation...
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Brian
"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain |
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CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | reply to nunya
GE never had good stuff imho. |
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| reply to stevek1949
+1 |
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 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5 | reply to Bob
said by Bob:You can thank Wal-Mart. No: you are confusing an effect with the vehicle by which an effect makes itself known. It's your fellow man that you have to thank for this, as he has made it perfectly clear he that he shops on price alone.
A few of us on the planet, including some here, do value spending more for better quality, but our tastes are so much in the minority that it's simply not profitable to cater to them.
This totally blows :-(
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Security Consultant | Orange County, California USA | my web site |
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 DannyZGentoo FanboyPremium
join:2003-01-29
Erie, PA | reply to telco_mtl
Yes, Channellock is still high quality, made in Meadville Pennsylvania. It is owned and run by the fifth generation of the family of the person who started the enterprise. They still treat their employees with a personal touch.
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Out the 10BaseT, through the modem, down the co-ax, over the fiber, across the backhaul, past the edge router, off the network...nothing but net |
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| reply to nunya
From treasure to trash.
Had a Sawzall for about 20+ years other than a couple of worn out cords never a problem then someone swiped it off the job.
Bought a new one and three months later it ceased operating, motor would run but the blade would not reciprocate, returned it to tool store I purchased it from and they had it repaired no charge, a month out of warranty it made a loud pop and the motor jammed up, it then made a loud bang as it bounced into a dumpster.
Three eights inch hammer drill same thing, the old school drill ran for years and never a problem then one day the gearbox took a dump, so I bought a new one and it was a POS right out of the box. The keyless chuck wouldn’t decently grab a bit over a quarter inch (which explains why Milwaukee sells bits with flats on the shank) and as a result it scored up a number of bits, then in less than a year of use the gearbox let go, the motor would spin and make a real nasty grinding sound but the chuck would not and could not be turned.
Opened it up and found the steel drive gear on the motor had split the Delrin gear it drove, now I realize Delrin is a self lubricating material stronger then nylon but what happened to using steel gears with grease.
Oh that’s right controlled obsolesce, can’t make a lot of money selling people a drill every 20 years or so.
I will say this, bought a Bosch version of the Sawsall cost me about $30 more than the Milwaukee but it is sweet, it’s quiet (noise is a sign of poor engineering) has more power and even though it is about the same weight it has less vibration than the Sawsall it replaced.
And don’t even get me going on the battery powered trash Milwaukee is offering. |
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| reply to Steve
said by Steve: No: you are confusing an effect with the vehicle by which an effect makes itself known. It's your fellow man that you have to thank for this, as he has made it perfectly clear he that he shops on price alone.
This totally blows :-(
Steve
Yup and the term acceptable failure rate becomes part of the design. |
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 Lurch77Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4 | reply to MatrixHDV
I'm only 35, so I can't speak for the much older stuff, but we use Milwaukee at my company. We have very few problems. In fact the only issues I can personally recall in the 5 years with the company is when I dropped my drill 30' to the concrete. It didn't make it, naturally. We use full size and compact drills, sawzalls, their new battery vacuums, and porta-bands. Both corded and battery. I'm not a Milwaukee "fan boy" but I cannot fault the reliability and quality we have gotten out of them.
Some of our guys use Bosch and DeWalt tools as well, and I also use Makita for some jobs. No problems with any of them.
That said, I do know there is a difference in older tools compared to today's tools. I have some old things here at home that are built like a tank. The problem I have is like everyone else said. Americans demand cheap shit. This makes retailers want to sell cheap shit. In a pinch I needed a simple racheting PVC cutter. Between two stores and several options, they were all made in China. Even the flagship brands like Rigid and Kobalt. |
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| reply to nunya
I still use, rarely, the corded Milwakee tools purchased in 80s and they are solid
Early 90s I bought my first battery drill motor, a Milwakee
Within first week both batteries were toast
Took whole shebang to the authorized repair place for warrantee and they said the charger was defective and replaced it but batteries were not covered
Never bought another Milwakee anything again.... |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 Reviews:
·Charter
·surpasshosting
·voip.ms
| reply to MatrixHDV
Milwaukee is a heart breaker. I have many Milwaukee drills from the olden days. They still hum along fine. They were very expensive, but I use them for commercial use, so it was worth the money.
I bought a cordless Milwaukee set a few years ago, and it has been nothing but problems. At least three trips to the repair shop. I FINALLY got the Milwaukee rep to switch out the drill with a new one.
Milwaukee is now owned by Techtronic (Ryobi), thus the dramatic drop in quality.
I like Bosch, but it appears as thought they are taking the same path as Milwaukee. Everything is going to China. I have yet to see a quality power tool from China.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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