 ChinaboundPremium
join:2002-12-21
Antioch, IL
kudos:3 | Before I Rip This MF'ing Wire Out (Just kidding. I'm very close to calling an electrician.)
My house is 35 years old. Pictured is a GFCI breaker, which our seller mentioned to me this morning is not the normal set up anymore. In my garage and kitchen, for example, a GFCI breaker isn't being used, but every outlet in those two spaces are GFCI outlets.
Anyhow, I awoke this morning to find no power in one of the bathrooms. I went downstairs and found this breaker tripped. I flipped it on and everything was ok for about 5 minutes, then it tripped again. I haven't had to replace a breaker for years, but it was recommended that I replace this breaker (by my seller), because it is, after all, 35 years old.
The wire I have labeled does not appear to have any screw holding it in like you see the first two wires have. When I had the breaker out an hour ago, there was no screw that I could see either.
My question is, how is this thicker wire being fastened inside the breaker, and is it something I can remove myself? I have no problem turning off the main and replacing this breaker, but I do not want to simply pull the wire out or cut it just yet, even though there is plenty of wire to work with if I do cut it and strip the coating back a little.
Can someone explain this for me, please? Thank you. |
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 shdesignsPowered By Infinite Improbabilty DrivePremium
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA | On the GFCI breaker I swapped, the white wire came installed on the breaker right out of the box. It was not removable. |
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ChinaboundPremium
join:2002-12-21
Antioch, IL
kudos:3 | Thank you for the quick reply. I would not have known that, but once I read your post, I ran downstairs and now see this makes perfect sense.
Will Ace or Menard's carry it? |
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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·CenturyLink
 ·Comcast
·Embarq Now Centu..
| reply to Chinabound
Save yourself some heart burn and first determine if an appliance plugged into one of the outlets, supplied by the GFCI is causing the nuisance tripping. Turn off the GFCI then determine which outlets are off. Unplug all devices from those outlets. Next turn the breaker on and wait to see if it trips. Moisture in an outlet can cause nuisance tripping. If the breaker does trip then replacing the GFCI may not solve the problem. If the breaker does not trip plug each device into the outlets that were connected to the GFCI. Eventually as you are plugging in each device, one device will cause the breaker to trip. That device probably has some leakage current that exceeds the leakage rating of the GFCI usually around 5mA. |
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sk1939Premium
join:2010-10-23
Washington, DC
kudos:9 | reply to Chinabound
Are you sure that it's a GFCI breaker and not an AFCI breaker? Make sure that it's not an appliance tripping the breaker, or an arc caused by a loose receptacle connection. |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to Chinabound
said by Chinabound:My house is 35 years old. Pictured is a GFCI breaker, which our seller mentioned to me this morning is not the normal set up anymore. In my garage and kitchen, for example, a GFCI breaker isn't being used, but every outlet in those two spaces are GFCI outlets. Outlets in damp or wet locations such as outside, bathrooms, garages, unfinished basements, kitchens, etc are required to be protected by a GFCI. There are three types of GFCI:
-inline, like that are often found on curling irons and hair dryers
-outlets, like what it sounds like you have in your garage
-breakers, just the outlets, but installed at the panel instead of the outlet.
There isn't an difference really between the last two other than location. They both preform the same. The breaker can be more convenient if you aren't sure how your outlets are wired or if adding a single GFCI outlet wouldn't protect all the outlets that need it, requiring additional GFCIs purchased. The outlet can be nice if you only need to protect a portion of a circuit or know that all the outlets are downstream of a single outlet.
A GFCI works by comparing the current on the hot and neutral wires. If it differs by more than 5 or 6ma, it trips. Since it needs to measure the current on the neutral, the circuit's neutral has to go through the device. The white wire that you indicated is the completion of that circuit. It's attached at the factory and isn't removable. If that wire comes out or is loose, you'll need to get a new GFCI breaker. Or at least every GFCI breaker I've ever seen was non-serviceable that way. |
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 mattmagPremium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3 | reply to Chinabound
All I can say is your seller shouldn't play electrician because he's clueless on most everything he told you. |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8
·Charter
 ·surpasshosting
| reply to Chinabound
It sounds as if your "seller" is a complete buffoon.
GFCI breakers are quite common. I can't tell from the photo whether this is a Square D panel, or the dreaded Federal Pacific.
If it's FPE, it should be replaced (the entire panel). FWIW, it looks like SQD to me.
The most likely scenario is the breaker is just doing it's job. There is a ground fault somewhere and it is tripping.
"Nuisance tripping" is mostly myth. It was term made up to explain any type of tripping that isn't immediately obvious to the troubleshooter. Does it occur? Yes. Is it common? No.
Most often, there is an actual "ground fault" somewhere on the circuit.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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| reply to Chinabound
Fix the hot wire when you put the new breaker in. Shouldn't be stripped that far back... |
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ChinaboundPremium
join:2002-12-21
Antioch, IL
kudos:3 | reply to nunya
Thank you, and everyone else who replied. I can't say whether or not the man we bought this house from is a clueless buffoon or not, but he had this house built along with his twin brother's house across the street back in 1977. How much of the work he actually did, or what he knows, I really have no idea. Perhaps he was saying new builds don't use GFCI breakers anymore, in favor of GFCI outlets?
The truth is, I'm the clueless buffoon. 
Anyhow, Menard's had the exact "Square D" breaker (whew!) for $67. A little surprised with the price, I drove into town to a small electric store I've noticed for years, but never went inside... Carey Electric. They've been there since 1952. I walked in and showed the older gentleman the breaker, and he told me he had it. He said, "If you pay me with cash, $40, and that's a damn good price."
I explained everything to him, and he feels as most of you do. There is a ground fault somewhere, but he was happy to sell me the breaker anyway.
He will be here at 10:00 tomorrow morning, because replacing the breaker didn't work. It promptly tripped when I cut the main back on, and I know my limits. I called him back and he said he will be here in the morning.
There are no appliances ever plugged into the two outlets in the bathroom. Only two light(s) switches, and the exhaust fan, which I had unplugged during my troubleshooting.
Thanks, everyone - I'll post what the problem was after its resolved. |
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| reply to Chinabound
A while a go, I had a tripping circuit because of a loose wire connection in a junction box. Hopefully your issue is as easy to find and fix. |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 | reply to Chinabound
Why would a guy from a supply house be coming to fix your problem? That is scary to me.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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 Zorack
join:2001-12-14
Fayetteville, WV | reply to Chinabound
Agree with Nunya,get a damn electrician. |
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 JuggernautIrreverent or irrelevant?Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2 | What if he is an electrician?  |
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 John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | reply to nunya
said by nunya:Why would a guy from a supply house be coming to fix your problem? That is scary to me.
$40 -cash- bucks...!  |
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| Is this them?
»www.manta.com/c/mmgf5bv/carey-ge···ctric-co
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Don't let my reality hinder your imagination! |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to nunya
said by nunya:Why would a guy from a supply house be coming to fix your problem? That is scary to me.
Who said he went to a supply house? |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 Reviews:
·Charter
·surpasshosting
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I drove into town to a small electric store I've noticed for years, but never went inside... Carey Electric.
You just here to argue semantics?
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | Not at all. Grew up in a small town and moved to a big one. Have dealt with businesses in both that were smaller Mom and Pop type places who would have sold something like this if you walked in the door. They would also have offered to send someone out if you had a problem doing it yourself.
In another tread you lament the passage of a bygone era (and the products produced) and in this one you apparently condemn the same people who were part of it (in your capacity). Take your pick, straddle the fence, but don't take both sides of it. |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 Reviews:
·Charter
·surpasshosting
| Your response makes no sense whatsoever. I don't even know how to reply. How does this have anything to do with the quality of products?
I'm saying it's very odd for someone to come from a STORE to perform a skilled trade. I'd be very leery of letting them into my home. Are they qualified? Licensed? Bonded? INSURED? What happens if they get hurt?
I think I'd check that out first.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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